Estinien (spoilers)

[Souljacker]

I think it's because most people thought Estinien was a jerk, even though he was well within reason while Iceheart basically relied on a false image to for peace.

I hated him, for certain. I didn't like him in the Dragoon quests, and really wasn't on board with how big a character he is in HW. What would have made him a good tragic character was to see him fall to his death with Nidhogg, but of COURSE he jumps away to safety because he's just THAT GOOD. And Nidhogg somehow, completely blind, managed to stay in range of the tower we were on. Because reasons.

Not going to shed a tear over it. Most of the story has me just shaking my head, actually.

[Kauthryn]

Not going to shed a tear over it. Most of the story has me just shaking my head, actually.

But he is that good? The entire mythos of the Azure Dragoon is that he is the definitive point of victory against dragons. Estinien is a jerk because he's talented and I know players generally hate when they don't get to "show up" the tough guy, but he was a consistent character that didn't rely on anything that the story didn't explain and express in detail. I found him irksome during the job quests too, but SE did an amazing job fleshing him out and he even maintained the ability to grow and learn as you do the quest. What is there to hate? Your complaints seem oddly personal as if his existence denied your character's.

[Ibi]

What is there to hate?

Y'shtola: "Be careful with that dragon eye, it's a seething, malevolent ball-of-hatred that wants to consume your soul."
Estinien: "Pfffft, as if. I'm totally stronger than it and I'll destroy it before it could ever be a problem."
Seething, malevolent ball-of-hatred: "o rly?"

He's obnoxiously cocky and over-confident, especially given that Nidhogg already made a puppet of him once (at least for anyone who's leveled DRG).

My reaction at the end of the story was less one of "Oh no, Estinien!" and more one of "Ugh. Really? You had one job, Estinien. One job!"

[Kauthryn]

He's obnoxiously cocky and over-confident, especially given that Nidhogg already made a puppet of him once (at least for anyone who's leveled DRG).

My reaction at the end of the story was less one of "Oh no, Estinien!" and more one of "Ugh. Really? You had one job, Estinien. One job!"

Did you literally miss the part where he actually DID suppress the eye, several times, when he needed to? He had one job and he believed it was done when Nidhogg was dead. THAT is why it overcame him, not because he was too weak but because as Nidhogg said, he let his guard down. Yes, he's cocky and arrogant but that's because he's really good at what he does. It's almost like only players feel they can be cocky and arrogant or something? Estinien had such good development and people get upset over it.

[Ibi]

Did you literally miss the part where he actually DID suppress the eye, several times, when he needed to? He had one job and he believed it was done when Nidhogg was dead.

Given that he's failed to suppress before and considering how serious the consequences for failing are, most people in his position probably wouldn't be so certain that there's no way it could possibly happen again.

Besides, Nidhogg was already dead for some time when Y'shtola gave him the warning that the eye was still attempting to take control of him. If he thought the job was done when he killed Nidhogg, at the very least that should have told him otherwise.

It's almost like only players feel they can be cocky and arrogant or something?

When in the MSQ is the Warrior of Light ever cocky or arrogant?

Estinien had such good development and people get upset over it.

It's your opinion that he had good development. Other people have a different opinion, which is why they get upset.

[Kauthryn]

Given that he's failed to suppress before and considering how serious the consequences for failing are, most people in his position probably wouldn't be so certain that there's no way it could possibly happen again.

1. What do you believe his "job" was, exactly? The Azure Dragoon is supposed to defend against the Dravanian Horde, and as far as we knew that threat had ended with Nidhogg's fall. The death of Iceheart brought the heretic threat to an end as well, so yes his job did seem to be over for him. If nothing else, he could use a breather? By his own statement, it seemed that everything was done.

2. I said they, as in the person playing.

3. My opinion is based on his development as a character, yes. It doesn't require me to exclude facts to come to a pretty bogus realization.

Estinien never really gave me the impression that he was overly arrogant - he was simply focused on protecting his people and homeland above all else whilst wrestling against the influence of Nidhogg. In many ways he had far more pressure on his shoulders than the Warrior of Light did so it's a testament to his competence that he survived for as long as he did.

That's why I liked him. I mean he certainly could be abrasive, brusque, and belittling but he came from a position of intending to protect his people. Idealism mattered little to him, yet despite that in the end he did grow to see his ways were wrong. I mean, "Fare thee well, my lady," was something I'd never have expected him to say at the start.

[saber_alter]

Y'shtola: "Be careful with that dragon eye, it's a seething, malevolent ball-of-hatred that wants to consume your soul."
Estinien: "Pfffft, as if. I'm totally stronger than it and I'll destroy it before it could ever be a problem."
Seething, malevolent ball-of-hatred: "o rly?"

He's obnoxiously cocky and over-confident, especially given that Nidhogg already made a puppet of him once (at least for anyone who's leveled DRG).

My reaction at the end of the story was less one of "Oh no, Estinien!" and more one of "Ugh. Really? You had one job, Estinien. One job!"

He thought the job done if not almost. Estinien is strong, both physically and mentally. He has to to resist the Eye for that long. I really didn't expect that he let his guard down that much, or that nidhogg only needed a single moment to attack.

[Fenral]

I hated him, for certain. I didn't like him in the Dragoon quests, and really wasn't on board with how big a character he is in HW. What would have made him a good tragic character was to see him fall to his death with Nidhogg, but of COURSE he jumps away to safety because he's just THAT GOOD.

I disagree with the value you (don't) place on individual human life. That is all.

[Zeirnaton]

I disagree with the value you (don't) place on individual human life. That is all.

this is just a game dude

[Tenkuu]

I hated him, for certain. I didn't like him in the Dragoon quests, and really wasn't on board with how big a character he is in HW.

Not going to shed a tear over it. Most of the story has me just shaking my head, actually.

Never liked Estinien. Just because he said a few smart things over the course of his life doesn't stop him from being an overall ass. People who try to justify his behavior as being good at his job honestly make me facepalm, because really? We meet plenty of people who are good at their jobs, have pretty rough jobs and aren't completely arrogant jackasses about it, namely the Scions. Also, given the fact that many people go out of their way to be nice, and if not that then at least patient, with Estinien and the general rude way he responds to everyone, I have absolutely zero sympathy for the guy and felt that he more than deserved his fate. I could not care less what happens to Estinien, even if my character happens to disagree. Speaking of which, Estinien, way to steal my character's thunder when Y'shtola was trying to give us a compliment. Go away please.

I know you meant the DRG story btw, but for me your last words there pretty much summed up my feelings about most of 3.0. It's mostly the fact that while I like a few select Ishgardians, I generally dislike the Ishgardians' behavior of learned helplessness in that they did absolutely nothing on their own but instead waited for the Warrior of Light to show up to even think of beginning to solve their problem with the dragons. No matter what you want to say to justify that, to me that's really just laziness and indifference on an unforgivable level, and makes me think we really will be their go-to guy/girl for solving all of their problems in the future.

Raubahn and Nanamo are just so adorable to me. I can't possibly hold anything against them.

I sure can. Nanamo's Tales from the Dragonsong War never even hinted that she'd be doing anything to help find the remaining Scions, so she better get her ass in gear and start doing something for them and us after all the trouble she got us into.

A tiny bit off topic... but I'm actually more interested in what will happen to Lahabrea, as we know he was absorbed into Ascalon and presumably consumed by Nidhoggs eye, does this mean Lahabrea is either dead or just within nidhogg currently? I'm a little disappointed that he was off'd so easily despite everything so far.

Same. I don't think Lahabrea is gone for good because imo that would be a bit too abrupt of an ending for a guy out of whom a pretty big deal was made. I was actually wondering why the sword was still sticking around after Thordan died, and whether it had any meaning?