Estinien (spoilers)

[TheCount]

While it was touching to see Raubahn's relief, am I alone in feeling that the complete lack of deaths so far is a little... underwhelming? By the end of 2.55 I was invested because of a lot of reasons, but Y'shtola is alive, Nanamo is alive, and Yda and Pap are probably alive. I doubt Thancred or Minfilia are dead so we lost... Noraxia, Wilfred, and He Who Shall Never Be Forgotten?

Why did the best person in the game have to die ;_;

[lololink]

So that you can replace that person by no personality cat-girl.

[Theodric]

I was kind of hoping that they'd kill off Raubahn. I don't like him at all - but that may just be due to how he's been presented during ARR. His new voice actor makes him a bit more tolerable. Ala Mhigans in general grate on me though - constantly going on about being invaded by the Garlean Empire when they themselves sought to conquer Eorzea. I hope the tables are turned and we see the Garleans painted in a more sympathetic light someday. Similar to Archades in FFXII...

[Samcaesar]

I didn't like him at first, but he grew on me. He was right more often then Iceheart was, as well. There wasn't a peaceful solution to the war while N lived.

I'm not sure what you consider "peaceful" but killing a dude who had his innocent beloved killed and wants revenge isn't peaceful to me.

[Kauthryn]

Raubahn and Nanamo are just so adorable to me. I can't possibly hold anything against them. But as for Y'shtola's return. I don't mind it too much it's just... is the game just going to have no serious death in it? They introduced Estinien and Ysale in this expansion and got rid of them, but that's after we've seen everyone else live.

I'm not sure what you consider "peaceful" but killing a dude who had his innocent beloved killed and wants revenge isn't peaceful to me.

The elezen can't be killed off because of something that happened before them. Fighting Nidhogg is Nidhogg's fault. Sure, dragons don't get over the past but you can't expect them to just roll over and die.

[Theodric]

I'm not sure what you consider "peaceful" but killing a dude who had his innocent beloved killed and wants revenge isn't peaceful to me.

Nidhogg lost his right to revenge when he started slaying innocents and punishing future generations for the sins of their ancestors.

[Leoheart]

A tiny bit off topic... but I'm actually more interested in what will happen to Lahabrea, as we know he was absorbed into Ascalon and presumably consumed by Nidhoggs eye, does this mean Lahabrea is either dead or just within nidhogg currently? I'm a little disappointed that he was off'd so easily despite everything so far.

[Samcaesar]

The elezen can't be killed off because of something that happened before them. Fighting Nidhogg is Nidhogg's fault. Sure, dragons don't get over the past but you can't expect them to just roll over and die.

Not all Elezens took part in the killing of Ratatoskr, but a good majority of Ishgardians actively seek out the deaths of heretics and dragons.

Nidhogg lost his right to revenge when he started slaying innocents and punishing future generations for the sins of their ancestors.

And what of those Ishgardians who actively take part in the slaying of dragons and heretics? This is war, you aren't innocent if you actively support the deaths of the enemy without regard for their lives.

[Kauthryn]

Your argument is falling to pieces now, Samcaesar. You're right, it is war, and that's why you can't pin the guilt on someone like Estinien who's fighting for survival. The dragons and heretics are actively seeking to overthrow Ishgard and bring its people to their end, whereas Estinien and those that defend Ishgard are fighting for survival. Thordan was a terrible person, but the men, women, and children killed in this war had nothing to do with his actions. So yes, Ishgardians do seek to defend themselves just as Nidhogg seeks revenge.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Raubahn and Nanamo are just so adorable to me. I can't possibly hold anything against them. But as for Y'shtola's return. I don't mind it too much it's just... is the game just going to have no serious death in it? They introduced Estinien and Ysale in this expansion and got rid of them, but that's after we've seen everyone else live.

Did you already forget Moenbreyda, who was killed in just one patch?