Raid runs and gear drops

[Stupifyed]

Speed runs are a bad concept period. It goes against everything a dungeon experience should be, running by enemies is half- ass way to run a raid and I hate to think this was the intent of SE, however it seems the only way to be able to get the some of the drops, it is a horrible idea.

A dungeon should not have a timer and never should there be any reward from skipping by enemies like we "HAVE" to in this game to complete it. I can understand if we could skip areas or wings of a dungeon to save on time but to run by enemies is just retarded for lack of a better word.

SE needs to abolish time limits in the dungeon and not allow the mobs to de-aggrow, also take away the mechanic of de-spawning mobs from the glowing circles that is plain stupid.

[Keftenk]

SOOOOO what your saying is, there is a way to clear the whole dungeon while also killing all the mobs between bosses? Because if not, then killing the mobs isn't a VIABLE tactic. And my post was actually about requesting helpful ideas that detail how to beat it without the arc, mage setup, not having some giant douchebag get on and state that there ls is the bomb for beating it 6 different ways and that I suck ass and don't know what I am talking about because I havent beaten the last boss yet. You are the textbook definition of a tool my friend. Your contribution to the community here is astounding.

All of the monsters in between each boss isn't even required to kill in order to get to the boss. There are monsters in corners and dead-ends in that place which have absolutely no point of even going to. Killing the mobs that you absolutely have to run through? I'm sure you could do it. I'm not entirely sure why you would even want to stop every so often to kill a bunch of mobs which have a tendency to leash on their own regardless where you take them for a speed run. Yet, you could do it at or before every major circle you need to pop though, first circle would be ~10 mobs or so, second ~5-9, third could be upwards to 15, but as little as 7. Then the fourth varys depending on mob placement. Everything after that you kill anyways before you end up at Batraal (for speed run).

Not only myself, but others have given the OP ideas of what other classes can or could be doing if they can't or won't bolster the Archer/Mage army. His response was for us to go away lol. Others responses to try and help the OP:

1. Have melee set cures and other actions to help thier MP, Leg Sweep will stun AOEs and Melee are not bound they can run when AOEs are running, I have done runs with 2 melees and had no problems with MP for the whole run.

2. Burst damage doesnt matter, what matters is DoT especially on the stronger mobs.

You are the type of person that could kill the game because you are so close minded, if mobs have AoEs you have to use ARCs so according to you all endgame will be ARC or gtfo because all endgame will have AOEs, you need to think outside the box to beable to play the game effectively, AOEs dont mean ranged damage only you think of ways around it.

Yes there will be unstunnable AOEs that can one shot melee which need to be hit with mages or ranged but there is no place in the Darkhold where this is the case.

People who say ARC onry so they dont get hit by AOE need to learn the basic mechanics of the game, i.e Stun interupts attacks and leg sweep is only r16 LNC so it will take no time for melee to get.

My response to help the OP:

Burst down all the bones at once, no need to spread out or kill a couple at a time. Archers have wide volley and an array of other AOEs they can use (Leg Sweep from LNC is boss btw; conal AOE stun (Lv 16 LNC, probably would only take an hour to get to that level); PGL Aura Pulse is actually stronger then Archer AOE for that kind of burst vs bones. As long as MRD is in steadfast, they'll destroy anything that comes in their AOE range (i.e. bring the skeletons to the MRD's)

And if you want to maximize the DPS, anyone with Line of Fire use it, Shock Spikes II use it, Punishing Barbs use it.

There were more even, some LNC's chimed in and commented how you can deal with some of the massive AOE that needs to take place, etc. It's not like we didn't offer our assistance, the OP just is tunnel visioning on the issue.

[Chain]

Who cares about gear until they fix stats, all you're doing right now is playing dress up.

[SniperRifle]

This is the most ridiculous request I have ever seen. You can clear the dungeon but instead of honing the skills necessary to completing the dungeon within 25minutes to obtain to 2 final rewards which aren't even the best in slot, you request that it is possible for people who don't want to get better to recieve the same rewards.

I will explain this clearly. There is nothing preventing you or anyone from completing the dungeon within the 25minute time frame. People who are lazy make up excuses to help them sleep at night to hide the fact they just don't want to become better.

Albert Einstein wasn't born a genious. And people who clear Dzemael Darkhold within 25minutes weren't born with this natural talent to clear dungeons faster then other people.

Mental is to physical; as 4 is to 1.

If you can't fathom what any of the above means...

QUICKSTRIDEINVIGORATEIIGFERO2RAGINGSTRIKE2TRIFARCHERBANISHIIBATTLEREGIME,ANDDOITWELL,SLEEPAOESTONESKINPRACTICEPRACTICEPRACTICE. <- thats what it means

Do that, and you'll get your falchion, brah.

[Ilean]

This is the most ridiculous request I have ever seen. You can clear the dungeon but instead of honing the skills necessary to completing the dungeon within 25minutes to obtain to 2 final rewards which aren't even the best in slot, you request that it is possible for people who don't want to get better to recieve the same rewards.

I will explain this clearly. There is nothing preventing you or anyone from completing the dungeon within the 25minute time frame. People who are lazy make up excuses to help them sleep at night to hide the fact they just don't want to become better.

Albert Einstein wasn't born a genious. And people who clear Dzemael Darkhold within 25minutes weren't born with this natural talent to clear dungeons faster then other people.

Mental is to physical; as 4 is to 1.

If you can't fathom what any of the above means...

QUICKSTRIDEINVIGORATEIIGFERO2RAGINGSTRIKE2TRIFARCHERBANISHIIBATTLEREGIME,ANDDOITWELL,SLEEPAOESTONESKINPRACTICEPRACTICEPRACTICE. <- thats what it means

Do that, and you'll get your falchion, brah.

You missed a key point in the OP's request. This discussion is pointless but I thought I'd help with your comprehension skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lru4dJ4J6g&t=33

[Plague]

I'd like to thank everyone for some good laughs. There are several ways as mentioned to go about beating this dungeon, "speed run" or normal.

The problem is that no matter what, this is a fact of life, you can't make everyone happy. Like several people mentioned, the speed run is there to pose a challenge, a different challenge to the regular run. The items that drop aren't even best in class, you can get most of those w/o even fighting the first boss. With that I think SE more than catered to the casual gamer....They do need to actually cater to the "few" that are hardcore too you know...

[SniperRifle]

You missed a key point in the OP's request. This discussion is pointless but I thought I'd help with your comprehension skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lru4dJ4J6g&t=33

The point is I have CNJ, ARC, and every DoW/DoM at 50 not because I those are the only classes I like playing. Because I knew each class would have abilities that would allow me to tackle content any way that was necessary.

The logic being used in this thread is that going in with ARC/CNJ is easy mode... No, it's smart mode. SE doesn't reward imbeciles. But, complain enough, maybe this thread will get its wish. Regardless of what happens with this game. My logic is based around bettering myself. OP's logic is based around his playstyle. No matter what content the game throws at us, I will always clear it faster, more often, and have a better time because I'm not hindered by the ignorance that "ONLY REESON WE CANT CLEAR IS CUZ WE DUNT HAV ARC/CNJ, TOO BAD THE GAME ONLY LETS US LVL WUN CLASS, OH WAITZ..."

This is why I've cleared it in less then 25mins... This is why anyone who hasn't, hasn't. If you wanted the gear bad enough, you would follow the means necessary, and not ruin the game for those who did WHAT IS NECESSARY to obtain it.

Believe me, I would go make my own abortion of a thread and say, "SE KEEPS DUNJINS THE SAME! BAD KIDS SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO TOUCH MY EPIC LOOTS" The only thing is no matter how easy or hard the content is, I will still clear it.

THIS IS WAT IM TRYIN TO TELL U, YOUR BRAIN IS WHAT PREVENTS U FROM 25MIN CLEARS! This is what the communities brain is saying when it can't clear the dungeon on its PGL/LNC/whateverclass...

F ARCHER! I WILL NEVER LVL IT! I don't care if it only takes 2 weeks to take from R1-50 I WILL NEVAR LVL IT!!!! IMAD ICRY IMALAZYNUBLET.

I'm done. If you still don't have your bow or sword by September, transfer to Bodhum. My LS will run you through; our treat.

OH that's right... inb42weeksto50?LIESPROOVEIT

Well, someone updated this girls ffxivpro page today...

LINK

But she made her character 3 weeks ago. In 1 week 5 days she did 25-50 CONJ/SHIELD. It's possible.

[Rogue]

/sigh i really didnt make my point clear did i?

what i was trying to get across is that a "speed run" probably isnt the best means to establish "difficulty"..

how many youtube videos have you seen of full archer parties?

how many have you seen of full melee parties?

i think the proof is in the pudding

like i said i havent been in a full party of archers but i imagine if i did i would be able to do a speed run.. I DONT WANT TO DO THAT because i like the people in my LS and i want to help everyone. i could give two craps about the sword but im sure others do and having this kind of mechanic revolving around acquiring it might not be the best means.

i accept it is perfectly possible for full melee to complete a speed run, but if im forced to take different players in my LS without bias to job class or skill/experience it is entirely likely that an archer will be more usefull and more successfull because of fundamental reasons (like being out of AOE range)

for example if i have a pug and an archer of EQUAL skill.

keftenk i would be more willing to listen to you if you werent such a giant douche, you have tried to belittle me since your first post.

mog you say dont touch it but ive seen the videos of your runs and impressive as they are your guilty of taking archers, obviously there must be a reason for this right?

try leading my LS on a speed run with the unbias i have stated above and see if you dont change your tune. the fact only 8 people can enter at a time is allready a huge downer for an "LS event"

[Zdenka]

what i was trying to get across is that a "speed run" probably isnt the best means to establish "difficulty"..

According to Lodestone, you haven't even beat Batraal yet so why are you worrying about a speed run? I'd be more worried with refining your tactic to beat the dungeon instead of doing /panic about how you will beat it in 25 minutes.

You can clear the dungeon killing every single mob... its possible (Doctor Mog's LS did this I think) so yes... to just CLEAR the dungeon killing mobs is a viable tactic, but under other restraints such as time you must expect your tactics to change.

Here are the helpful tips to beat the dungeon.

1. Learn hate management skills (healers and tank mostly) so that you aren't getting threat pulled at the start of bosses.
2. Equip self heals for non-mages.
3. Acquire HQ gear where possible.
4. Equip 3 AoE WS's. (These are considered DoT for trash... it doesn't mean the actual spell DoT's)
5. Learn what does the best damage vs Boss type mobs Ogre and Batraal.
6. Learn where safe zones are vs Ghost on Batraal and Ogre... for this meele means to find where you get hit the least.

OK now that you have some tips for just actually clearing it... here are tips for speed run. Its meant to be close for people with 3+ jobs at 50 so you need to realize thats how SE designed it to be.

1. Everyone must have Quickstride.
2. Mages must rotate sleeps (sleeping Orobon is critical).
3. Keep stoneskin and shockspikes up.
4. Assign correct number of people to each blue circle.
5. You want Ogre dead around 49 minute mark (typically a 4 minute kill or quicker is desired.... time your normal run kills)
6. Rotate Leg Sweeps on skeleton pack.

And for when you beat batraal... here are tips to beat him faster.

7. Batraal P1: AE the first skeleton set on top of Batraal
8. Batraal P2/3: Have meele+ranged tank the skeletons to the West and AE them... Your meele SHOULD be able to stay alive without any mages healing them. If your meele/archer cannot solo skeletons during normal run without absolutely needing cures from mages, they can figure out how to do it better.
9. Tank tips: tank batraal in 1 spot after P2 starts (by pond works best for us) and your tank must dance the AE WS's in P3... this makes it tons easier.

[Speeral]

To the op two things first. This game is about having multiple classes levelled to make you better at your primary role, which also allows for freedom in setting skills for different range of playstyle. Secondly just bc you don't have an ideal set up to do a five chest run doesn't mean you can't try something different? Does it?

As well id like to point out there needs to be the element of challenge to give us a carrot to chase in the long run.

Personally i find this complaint somewhat fail. Because there is a slew of other gears u can get. You want the full win either go in with whats been tested or keep practising and adjusting until your group gets the fifth chest in a speed run.