The Ninja Superthread

[Kafziel]

I recently returned to the game to prepare for HW and have played mostly Ninja. I feel like a large reason that mudra lag is such an issue is because of how big the punishment is for failing/inputting the wrong mudra combination. When you fail a mudra that is 20 seconds worth of ninjitsu wasted (more if you don't force yourself to use the bunny?). I can't really think of another class that has a mechanic that is so punishing, especially not one that suffers such a serious issue as mudra lag. I feel like a simple solution would be that ninjitsu doesn't go on CD if you wait out the wrong combo without using it (let the 5 second mudra timer expire). So if you use mudra and then ninjitsu(including the bunny) then ninjitsu goes on the normal CD, but if you wait out the mudra timer on the wrong combo then ninjitsu resets. There is still a dps loss for the wasted time inputting the wrong mudra and waiting for the timer to run out but it would be far less damaging (7 seconds lost instead of 20+). The player would still have to pay attention to check what ninjitsu will be cast so they can let it expire if needed. This is by no means a perfect solution, i.e. doesn't help ability lag on the ninjitsu itself, but would definetly help those who suffer from mudra lag (I'm really tired of getting katton when I correctly inputted huton on my end). This will also help stop ninjitsu from being wasted by certain mechanics. For example, you enter a mudra combo but before your able to cast ninjitsu you get a 5 second stun so the mudra timer will expire. With my system you will be able to re enter your mudra combo after stun fades and are not screwed out of you ninjitsu by RNG.

Some may think this is unneeded but I feel with the upcoming addition of positionals to ninja something needs to be done to alleviate the how costly the mudra lag issue to those who suffer from it.

[Zamii]

snip

failing to input the jutsu correctly is not at all the issue with mudra lag, the problem is with a higher latency you lose so much of a GCD by performing the longer jutsu, namely suiton and huton, that over a full fight your down multiple skills worth of damage simply because you were stuck doing mudras that cannot be interupted.

theres a multiptude of ways mudras can be fixed, and it could all be as simple as making raiton/suiton/huton a single mudra skill as they are the most common, or they could make it more client side for mudra only, or they could let us use skills in between mudras.. the list goes on.

[silentwindfr]

the best way to fix the mudra is to make the mudra imput be done from player side and only the ninjustu itself is server side.

[Alahra]

failing to input the jutsu correctly is not at all the issue with mudra lag

That's not entirely true. Latency can sometimes cause the Mudra buffs to not transmit at the same rhythm they normally do, which can be problematic when you're used to inputting them at a certain speed and suddenly they don't input correctly. Lag contributes to missed inputs in that way. So lag is kind of a double whammy. It hits you with delayed GCDs and can cause you to miss Jutsu altogether.

[Odowla]

the best way to fix the mudra is to make the mudra imput be done from player side and only the ninjustu itself is server side.

Then people cheat and you can send it multiple times, unless you limit it then the exact same lag effect happens

[Sleigh]

I think a nice band-aid fix that'd impact almost nothing else negatively would be to change Chi and Jin's single use Mudra to Raiton and Suiton respectively, especially since Suiton will presumably be the only long Mudra used in combat constantly. Probably not their intent to make their mythical Ninjutsu system a one press system for the majority of the fights, but I doubt having NA/EU players losing a couple of seconds for no reason throughout a fight was their intent either.

[Alahra]

I think a nice band-aid fix that'd impact almost nothing else negatively would be to change Chi and Jin's single use Mudra to Raiton and Suiton respectively, especially since Suiton will presumably be the only long Mudra used in combat constantly. Probably not their intent to make their mythical Ninjutsu system a one press system for the majority of the fights, but I doubt having NA/EU players losing a couple of seconds for no reason throughout a fight was their intent either.

It's actually always really bugged me that all 3 single-mudra inputs do the same Ninjutsu. I would be on board with this, though they'd probably have to rebalance potencies a bit if did it this way.

[silentwindfr]

Then people cheat and you can send it multiple times, unless you limit it then the exact same lag effect happens

i think you miss the part where i say, only the ninjutsu is controlled server side, meaning you do the mudra order from player side (avoid impact tie to the lag) and for launch the ninjutsu, you need the server.

other point quite amusing, have all from server side don't avoid cheat, the bot of the rmt want to have a talk with you about this. they can teleport, they can be underground, they can even hide them name,....

[Odowla]

i think you miss the part where i say, only the ninjutsu is controlled server side, meaning you do the mudra order from player side (avoid impact tie to the lag) and for launch the ninjutsu, you need the server.

other point quite amusing, have all from server side don't avoid cheat, the bot of the rmt want to have a talk with you about this. they can teleport, they can be underground, they can even hide them name,....

their teleporting is actually faking a dc then moving somewhere

and yes, you still get the lag effect

also i could make a script and make every mudra combination into 1 button press if it was client side

it would be so easy

maaking it server controller wouldnt really fix the issue since the server could still say no and make it even worse, at least you're getting it off when its laggy

And the bots arent even that big of a problem, i barely see them anywhere nowadays and i'm on gilgamesh

[Ephier]

Then people cheat and you can send it multiple times, unless you limit it then the exact same lag effect happens

How can you send it multiple times if it still has a 20 second cooldown. Only the 3 mudras themselves would be client side while the activation skill would still be server sided. Of course people would make macros to have fast inputs, but you still have to wait for your GCD so while it may be cheating, it would not do much.