DEV REQUEST:DUEL/SPAR system

[Nalien]

Well, even ignoring the argument that resouces spent on one piece content can't be spent on other content that people might like more, there is also the issue that adding dueling in the open world does affect the aesthetic of the game. People are allowed to dislike PvP so much that they don't even want to see it.

PvP actually has its own little development team, so time spent on PvP content isn't time that would otherwise be spent on PvE content. Scroll up and you'll see my opinion on what PvP content I'd prefer; New Maps or Duels.

Also go back a page or so for an example of the "aesthetic" this game has. Dueling is an active part of Ul'dah society. Main Scenario quest has you actively dueling. Duels seem to be something Adventurers (NPC ones, at least) actively participate in.

And yes, people are allowed to dislike PvP so much that they don't want to see it. You know what though? That means absolutely nothing. Does "I dislike it so nobody can have it!" sound like something a mature person would say? Sounds fairly childish to me. There are plenty of things I dislike in this game that I ignore because other people like them and I'm perfectly fine with them somehow finding enjoyment in things I dislike.

A lot of arguments can be used for a lot of different things in this game. That doesn't mean that they aren't valid arguments or shouldn't be considered. Just as people are voicing that they want open-world duels, others can voice that they want PvP to continue hidden in instances.

Again, instances are the thing we want to get away from with duels. More instance PvP is not what we want, for one thing queues are an issue with instances. Further compounding that issue is splitting PvPers up into multiple queues. The main reason many of us want duels is so we have something (PvP related) to do between queues. Locking it in an instance just completely misses the point.

[Gilraen]

Yes, Yoshida is a fan of PvP, and he's done some nice things for those that want it. He's given them the Wolves' Den, two variations of Frontlines and is reportedly giving Frontlines even more love in Heavensward. This is the face of PvP in XIV and I'm all for it. Most everyone is all for it. To say people don't want it is rather shallow, but this seems to be the assertion as to what the argument is. It's the words 'open world' that is being disputed. If that was Yoshida's plan then he's had a lot of time to implement it. Yet he hasn't. This isn't about aesthetics, this is about the time between the implementation of the Wolves' Den to now, where the only other PvP development has been Frontlines. So what IS Yoshida's plan here? I'm not going to speak for him, but I will let his direction be his voice.

Append:

I think the whole argument can come to an agreeable close if this one question can be answered, "Why do you want to involve those that don't want to be?"

[raelgun]

YIt's the words 'open world' that is being disputed. If that was Yoshida's plan then he's had a lot of time to implement it.

Append:

Theres many things that has not been implemented into this game such as master looting, we are getting this but I consider this to be an important feature, we don't always get everything into the game as soon as possible.

I have answered this question, this game caters to many people and still has many more types of content to cater to people, these content will always be in front of others weather they like it or not, just like glamours for me yet its everywhere I look, as this is an mmo, it should contain as much type of content as it can and every thing is subjected to social scrutiny.

This game is not just about you, it is not designed around your view, it is designed by the developers view and how we enjoy the content, people are asking for more content, you have no right to remove that environment, you do not own it, everyone has equal rights to it.

People are playing this game because it is also an mmo, mmos by its nature have a large social elements to them, this will always cause positives or negatives no matter what, at the very least the pvpers who are wanting open world requested duelling/sparring are probably doing more open world content that are the staple of mmos then what you are wanting out of this game.

Also with more stuff to do in the open world allows for more player driven events, sometimes in WoW there were duelling matches that would take places in interesting locations like on a mountain top or in an area with water which reduces the effective movement speed. How can this be done in an instanced location ?, players should be encouraging for more varied and just more stuff to do in game, not denying it because of some silly exaggeration.

[Gilraen]

Yet another fallacy that keeps cropping up. The 'not wanting to see it'. People generally don't care about seeing something because it doesn't involve them. Glamours don't involve anyone except the glamoured (unless you're really put off by pixels, which would be a little silly). A more apt comparison that does involve others is gilsellers. Noone asks to receive gilseller /tells or friend requests, noone goes to towns looking to have their chat populated with gilseller /shouts, /yells or /says. Noone asks for any of it. Open world duels would be just that, PvPers looking for people to /duel, getting people who may or may not want any part of it involved. And just the remote chance of harassment from a refused or blocked /duel is one chance too many.

I think the whole argument can come to an agreeable close if this one question can be answered, "Why do you want to involve those that don't want to be?"

[lordoftheapes79]

I hated this in WoW, especially when you were low level and max levels would constantly challenge you as you were walking into major cities. However, I get the appeal and enjoy a match from time to time. If this were implemented in specific PvP areas I'd be ok with it. Like at the wolves den.

[Laerune]

I love to have a duel/sparring option and it could work in this game. To be honest, I was suprised that this option was not included when they started adding PvP to this game. I think these options would make it very viable to have a duel/sparring option:

1. If players dont want to duel, they have a option that automatic will block people from sending them a invite. Alot of people dont want to be called names for not wanting to duel, but we should understand that the players that insult others for not wanting to duel, are the same type of players that will insult for every silly thing. These type of players are small and loud.

2. Make certain locations a NO PVP zone. There will be no PvP near cities, quest hubs and when a Hunt spawns, there will be no PvP allowed near it. Alot of players are saying that they are bothered by the skill effects that will happen during a duel. But how is this any different from a player fighting a monster next to you and spamming alot of skills?

3. Dueling should not give any reward, its only meant to practice/duel with another player so you can test yourself against players or test out a new rotation with a player that will adapt. I think dueling is a great way to practice and improve your skills for the pvp duties like Frontlines where one can pvp for reward.

I think having two players queue up via a Duty Finder just so they can duel each other for few minutes is a little to extreme and a waste of server load. Aslong as they put the 3 points that I have featured in my post, I think dueling can work. I dont understand why people are against dueling, if they themself are not going to use it. I have also seen people complain that adding dueling would be a waste of rescourses, but as majority of the players already know, there is a PvP team focusing on only adding PvP content. So I dont understand how adding dueling would interfer with the raid team adding more endgame raiding content?

But, before we start thinking about adding dueling. How about we ask the developers to fix the current pvp that we have. Right now a queue takes around a hour for someone to get into a match, that is not normal and should be a sign that something is very wrong. I think the GC restriction is the major troublemaker here. With the GC restriction we have a longer queue, because the game is grouping up and waiting for certain GC to fill up. I also find the GC restriction bad, because it blocks me from being in the same group as my friends. Forcing players who want to pvp toghter to pick the same GC, because otherwise they can not play toghter is a bad design decision and frankly, I am suprised how this was approved to be added to the game in the first place. I think making the players heroes for hire would be a better angle, this way we the players can group up with whoever we want, instead of what we have right now.

TLDR: Dueling can work, its a common thing in mmorpgs and its weird that FFXIV does not have it. It can be used for improving your skills as a pvper or do some PvP while waiting in a queue. Aslong as they give players a way to block dueling request, make certain zones only for dueling and make dueling not give any token. I dont see how it can not work.

[raelgun]

I dont understand why people are against dueling, if they themself are not going to use it.

The reason I am seeing so far is, for the most part is not an inherent hate of PVP or duelling as it were, its how people envision this game, I can only assume they can only see this game as good vs evil and that stuff like this cannot exist for some reason, the story here being used is this developments team work, not the past FF storyboard writers or the like.

PVP to the ones here feel it should not belong here like its their game and only their game, even though its the developers vision and it contains many things that go against the grain of traditional final fantasy already so dunno why this should be any different.

[Apoptic]

I'm glad this thread got resurrected. It gives me hope for the community that there are people out there willing to stand up against the strange players of this game who think they are justified in arguing against adding what should be very basic and expected features of an mmo. The fallacy of "it will take away time from adding (insert unrelated need here)" has been debunked. A separate PvP dev team is already in place. The argument that "it violates my personal aesthetic desires/violates some sort of nonexistent community harmony trope" is of course nonsense. Those asking for duels have already said that disabling dueling in cities is not a problem.Just let us step outside of town and we can do it there, out in the fields. The attempts to equate dueling with universally hated aspects of that game like gil sellers is also of course a decoy from the real issue some have with dueling; the fear of being made to look foolish and unskilled in a video game. The solution to this has already been presented; create either a quest or unlock of some sort to enable dueling to those who are interested, and the inability to initiate a duel with a locked character. A toggle should also be included to disable this feature, indicating disinterest in duels. Its simple. If you still have a problem with dueling after this solution, which will completely and totally prevent you from being "forced" to duel anyone or even seeing a request, then i'm not sure what to say. After all that, if you are still so afraid of being mocked for not having it unlocked, to the point that you insist on no one else being able to do something in the game they would greatly enjoy, you need to get counseling for your emotional immaturity issues.

[Kikosho]

It's like people skim over the suggestions to limit any and all duel abuse every single time it is mentioned. The simplest way to put duels in game is to just lock it behind a quest. If you don't have the quest completed, the option to duel won't even exist, similar to how Triple Triad functions. The quest can even be placed in Wolves Den Pier, a scarcely visited area, so people can't complain about having an "annoying quest marker on the map". The option to auto-decline duels even after it is unlocked can be added as well for those times you don't feel like getting duel requests.

I think the whole argument can come to an agreeable close if this one question can be answered, "Why do you want to involve those that don't want to be?"

We don't want to involve you. It wouldn't be any fun dueling someone that doesn't want to do it. A lot of the suggestions are catering to the people that don't want to Duel. Now, if your reply is going to be along the lines, "but I'll see duels happening thus making me involved" then there really isn't anything else to say.

[Gilthas]

We don't want to involve you.

Then ask for a dueling server.