The broken FFXIV Holy trinity

[UltimateAoe2]

NOPE! Healers actually aren't expected to dps. That came from the community.

then why do we have cleric stance.

[Cynfael]

...can no longer push the "healers must dps or they are lazy" argument from this article.

Sorry to break this to you, but it remains lazy for healers to fail to contribute DPS as they are able. Refusing to learn this skill because healers are virginal and shouldn't have to sully themselves with DPS also constitutes laziness.

For perhaps the third time or so, I plainly explain that the only thing Yoshida communicates in this article is that healer DPS is not taken into account when setting minimum DPS clear requirements in raids. Everything else you and certain other people have been pulling from this article wasn't actually written or even implied.

[Kahnom]

FEAR IT! FOR IT SHALL CONQUER YOUR WORLD!!

Cute /10cha

[Lemuria]

Wait, honest question, what is your point? Let's assume I'm too dense to understand. My argument, start to finish, is that it's possible to sr dungeons at the min ilvl. What issue do you have with that?

If you read his post, he was agreeing with you.

They aren't just faceroll with no thought unless you have done them a lot or are overgeared.

Let's be honest here, half the ease is due to the fact we know exactly what mechanic is coming and when it's coming. These mechanics can often be impossible to survive as well, which means it only takes a few players to screw everyone over and wipe the party.

I'm happy to have some challenging content in the game, but I'd like to steer the course away from pixel-perfect AoE dodges and fights that require so much DPS to complete that doing any dodging causes it to dip below the requirement. Honestly, some of the fights are already there.

[Allyrion]

then why do we have cleric stance.

Well, considering Yoshida said they never expected healers to really dps and never tuned with that in mind -
I think it's safe to assume Cleric stance was made for healers to level and do story instances mostly.

That said, they aren't against healers dpsing either and said they would allow it for top players to push cutting edge content or just for play style.
They're not tuning raids to require it, but they're also not stopping players from having the option.

But yea, Cleric Stance was probably really just there to make it easy for healers to solo.

[Dervy]

then why do we have cleric stance.

Clerics stance was an aid to allow Healers to DPS whilst levelling and during solo/duo content. This was mentioned during beta and release of 2.0. If you've played any other MMORPG, a healer is pretty gimped at levelling and progressing through quests without the aid of a DPS or tank, nothing more. YoshiP even mentioned somewhere, (can't remember where it was) that the games mechanics are balanced between the Tanks and 4 DPS roles. They do not take into consideration Healers DPSing when optimising/balancing raid content.

[Zfz]

then why do we have cleric stance.

So people who start their character as healers aren't getting the short end of the stick.

Yoshi-P publicly said that encounters are balanced without consideration to healer dps at all. They are just leaving that option open for people. Healers can DPS. But the design intent was not that healers are supposed to DPS.

[SarcasmMisser]

There are no less than 6 threads on the healer forum with people flipping their lid that they can no longer push the "healers must dps or they are lazy" argument from this article.

And I've been getting the worst sense of deja vu every time someone quotes Yoshida now, because it spread out over so many threads.

Actually they are flipping their lid to your perplexing posts where you are utterly adamant on ways healers must play and you ran away when you couldn't adequately justify it with your laminated copy of Yoshida's comment on DPS in raids (which you don't do).

I'm confused about this whole thing because I follow the min maxing conversation and I don't recall myself or anyone ever asking yoshida how we should play our jobs, it's the players that maximize the potential of jobs not the devs and thus it's the players who are the authority. I don't see how a commentary on raid tuning changes what we consider optimal, what if we want to clear content before having they gear they intended it?

I should point out though that it's only you who literally thinks people should be forced to play a certain way, I really don't care about how others play. I have reasoned opinions which I will share when solicited for advice, but otherwise I have a high tolerance of other players in easily DFed content. In 8 man raids in my own static or similar circles I'd care but given that you haven't even cleared t5 I wouldn't encounter you parsecs from content with actual standards, so what's your horse in this race? You're practically being the strawman elitist except for the opposite cause.

[Nalfein]

Practicly all content tied to the main story has been easy to allow as many players as possible to be able to proceed somewhat painless thru said story.

The more difficult content has been side stuff like extreme primals or coil raid.

And imo it should stay like this

No it should not stay like this as it makes people feel bored and quit the game mostly because there is no challenge at all and the whole game mobs are just a joke and doesn't harm you except some primals and raids which is quite a few. I respect your opinion but if what you want is just something really easy trust me you're the first one that gonna fed up and go check another game.

[Gunspec]

Walks into thread... whoa, this is still going on? What argument has this thread morphed into today? Oh, so healers need to dps... I thought this thread was complaining about tanks being able to pull entire rooms?

I'm not so sure "trinity" is a good word anymore, because it implies that the three roles aren't constantly bickering with each other about how the other roles should do their job. This is more of a "triumvirate", because the three roles are at each others throats as often as they are battling the enemies.