Melee Limitbreak

[Geryth]

There are a lot more problems in Slaughter than limit breaks:

1. Push mechanics off cliffs - Sure LB's have unavoidable deaths sometimes but they do have counters. There's nothing you can do about getting pushed off a cliff. Instant death mechanics are not good for PvP - sure LB's need to be toned down but then so does healing because otherwise hardly anyone would get KO'd.
2. Ninja spawn camping - The map's setup makes it too easy for ninjas to spawn camp and gank lone players running back after getting killed. Bounce pads help for easier getaways and when you're stunned on your mount you can't even purify. Being fully locked while stunned while mounted is probably the main issue here.
3. CC's last way too long - a full length sleep or bind shouldn't last for more than 3-4 seconds. Sitting around for 15 seconds unable to move is a terrible PvP mechanic.

Sure limit breaks are high on the list of toxic mechanics in Slaughter, but Slaughter is full of toxic mechanics. I can't fathom why it's the most popular mode of PvP and why it's the only queue that pops. I feel like I need to roll a black mage or summoner if I want to have an impact on the teams victory...I just do it because it's the quickest games and the quickest way to get PvP rank (ugh it's been a horrible grind).

[CeveArthu]

There are a lot more problems in Slaughter than limit breaks:

1. Positioning

2. Communication instead of moving out of the base 1 by 1 like idiots

3. Healers have esuna, you have purify, cc immunity exists

[Evangela]

It's avoidable unless you fail to avoid it.

[Geryth]

1. Positioning

2. Communication instead of moving out of the base 1 by 1 like idiots

3. Healers have esuna, you have purify, cc immunity exists

I'm not complaining about those mechanics in the sense that "I can't counter them" or there's "nothing I can do about it" or "whine whine whine". I'm just noting that these mechanics are anti-fun, toxic, and bad for PvP (when I said there's nothing I can do about getting pushed off a cliff I mean that AFTER I've been pushed I can't do anything to stop it - obviously paying attention to push classes and positioning is a way to limit these encounters). The OP is complaining about melee limit break - I'm just saying that's there's bigger problems in Slaughter right now than limit breaks. That said, here's my take on your "counter points".

1. Most classes that can push you off the cliff can stun you first. And many times both GC's will gang up on you and push you towards your ramp. There are many situations where you can't avoid being close to a ledge. The mechanic as a whole is toxic, it's really nothing to do "counters". Instant death mechanics are "anti-fun" meaning the joy obtained by the players pushing you off a cliff does not offset the frustration someone gets by being pushed off a cliff, thus the "net-fun" of the encounter is negative as a whole for the game. It's bad design.

2. Yeah, right, communication. In a 24 man team people can't even agree to go to markets or mannors after the eggs pops. I've tried and tried to organize a simple 3-4 people to thwart campers and what usually happens is I get killed by 3 ninjas with battle high and LB's when I actually pose a challenge for them trying to help a clueless teammate have a safe passage to the bounce pad. In Aether the flames have even started to employ warriors or dragoons to hide on the flanks to get that initial slow while you're mounted so you can't even take a long side route so the ninjas can catch up if you didn't go straight down the center like a noob. The way the map plays and the general behavior of PUGs makes this too successful of a strategy and is also an "anti-fun" mechanic - if you can't leave your base that's a terrible feeling. Again, not that I'm complaining that I can't be successful at killing ninja campers (I'm usually the catalyst to their demise on the occasions that I can organize something against them or if I have my own limit break up I can sometimes 1v2 them), I'm just stating that it's an anti-fun mechanic as a whole and Slaughter particularly helps it to be a successful strategy.

3. 15 second sleep = Esuna. 12 second sleep = purify. 9 second sleep = ? Also healers are usually struggling to keep people alive, and I can't control a healer's ability to notice that I'm asleep. The fact that anything renders me unable to participate for so long is also an "anti-fun" mechanic. Purify is the only thing I have control of and it's a 3 minute cooldown - I get to use it maybe three times in one match, whereas I'm CC'd way more often than that. For a PvP encounter any CC needs a hard cap of 4-5 seconds with diminishing returns making you immune after the third CC regardless of type (bind/sleep/stun etc.) This would even help alleviate the cometeor spam issue. Mass bind/sleep plus cometeor spam is the devil for this mode.

Anti-fun doesn't mean there aren't counters, and it doesn't mean that there isn't strategy or even some fun involved in the encounters (remember, one side is having a great time while the other is having an even more frustrating time). But overall they are toxic to the health and enjoyment of the game.

[Vandril]

I agree with some of what you're saying, Geryth. Some.

Knocking people off cliffs to get kills is not a healthy mechanic, for most all of the reasons you outlined. Though, despite agreeing with you, I'd argue that it's quite possible that the "net fun" of the mechanic could be positive depending on just how much someone enjoys killing people this way.

(Side Note: Word is that DRG can survive being pushed off a cliff via a well-time Elusive Jump. So there may be a single counter to this mechanic, at least.)

All in all, for cliff-pushing, if the one who pushes you does not get credit for the kill (and thus the enemy team does not get points in Slaughter), then the mechanic is acceptable. I'm not sure how it works now, but if it were to work as I just described than that would be fine, imo. Otherwise it's just a cheap way to cheese some points in for your kill count.

As for camping of bases - I disagree. If people are foolish enough to keep running back into an ambush, then they deserve to get stuck in their own base. There are very easy ways around a base camp...camping unless the enemy team had overwhelming numbers there.

As a NIN who rarely ever base camps anyway, I consider it a valid battle strategy.

Your point on CC is true, but your "limits" on their duration are far too extreme. Given the 2.5s base GCD in FFXIV, base duration of sleeps and roots should be 10s, or 4 GCDs. That's a fine amount of time when taking into account what would otherwise be achievable. With the diminishing returns of CC, that duration seems fair to me.

[Faltrask]

Getting pushed off a cliff it's not 100% death. You don't always die depending from where you fall. It's absolutely fair as classes like healer have absolutely no way to kill someone or of disposing of people chasing them.

[Lorielle]

Getting pushed off a cliff it's not 100% death. You don't always die depending from where you fall. It's absolutely fair as classes like healer have absolutely no way to kill someone or of disposing of people chasing them.

And 9/10 you're on the top of the ramp or the middle battleground where it -normally- happens. THAT is what they're talking about. Pretty safe to assume we know a deep fall isn't going to kill you. That mechanic didn't exactly change from the PVE scene.

Also...Really, Healers don't really do this as a counter measure. It's more done as an offensive measure. >.>

[Faltrask]

Last Post

Well what I mean is that even if you push someone down, if you don't do it on the external side of the cliff i's not a 100% kill.

What they should change is that the falling kill goes to the last person who did damage to it counting dots. So if you're from Limsa and you throw down someone from uldah who have a gridanian player's dot on him, the kill goes to gridania, but i guess that can't be helped.
I've Killed tons of Fevered/High people with fluid aura, unfortunately sometime it happened that I just gave points to other FCs.

I think the push back thing is something that makes the fight interesting, you always have to be careful about that.

Short Version:
I do it as a tease/offesive measure... But yea you don't kill people 100% of the times, especially Ninjas lol.

[CeveArthu]

What they should change is that the falling kill goes to the last person who did damage to it counting dots.

this is what happens already...

[Faltrask]

this is what happens already...

What I meant is that it is BAD that you throw someone down and another GC get the kill-point just because the target had their dots on him.