No new SMNs for SMN?

[Kaethra]

As for SMN from FFXI...I loved that job, but it was deeply flawed for years. And arguably, one of the things that iteration of SMN needed above everything else was something for the actual SMN to have something to do that was intrinsically part of the job and not from a subjob or dependent on having a summon out. Ironically, FFXIV's SMN goes the other way and is actually a much more solid job for it. And it can only improve from here.

I have to agree with this.

See there's multiple camps when it comes to the Summoner:

1. Those that are fine with it.
2. Those that want stronger pets.
3. Those that want a summoner theme to be more apparent.

Sometimes 2 and 3 mix a bit.

I'm with camp one. I've played a Necromancer in both Everquests. That was a pet class done right. You had a pet, you had buffs for the pet. But it was an extension of you, not the other way around. It didn't, couldn't do all the work for you. Those in camp 2 frequently want a pet that is badass and able to do tons of damage for them. Unfortunately it makes for a simple easy to use class that will be first in the line for nerfs. You just can't explain why your DPS should be as high with one button as a Ninja, Dragoon, or Black Mage has to do with half a hotbar.

In FFXIV the Scholar and Summoner are done well. The pets are a glorified DoT/HoT with some added buffs. What you all need to remember is your Class IS Arcanist. Your Job is Summoner. Look at other Classes and Jobs. For example, what do Paladins tank with? Gladiator abilities augmented by Paladin skills (Shield Oath, ect). What do Black Mages damage with? Fire, Fire 2, and Fire 3... all thaumaturge abilities.

So it only makes sense that the majority of damage from a Summoner comes from its Arcanist abilties, Bio, Miasma, and Ruin. And then augmented by some flashy abilities from their summons. Much like Rogues are augmented by the mudra/ninjutsu abilities.

Now those in Camp 3 I feel for. Sylve had some interesting ideas and I think that should be focused on. Lets be honest, perception is reality and even if the Player is doing all the work. If the abilities looked like they were coming from the pet, there would be alot less complaint. Here's a list of ideas of my own they could do:

1. Spur makes the Egi bigger and its attacks flashier.
2. Enkindle effect looks like the Primal's version of the attack.
3. Limit Break summons the actual Primal and does one of its moves. Same AOE Potency attack as before, just different look. Maybe even MegaFlare from Bahamut at some point in the expansion.

[Nestama]

This is the part most people seem to be forgetting about in their constant complaints about how SMNs work in this game. The lore of FFXIV dictates that summoning a full primal would effectively be an act of treason and what not. And lets not forget that besides Ramuh, all the primals in this game actively hate you and want you dead.

But nope. Lore be damned to those people. Props to you on that post, I know what I'd pick too.

Going to add: if SMN's could summon a full sized Primal, no one would ever want them to join their Coil parties. Not being able to see who has Divebomb markers, T10 charge markers/tether or T11 tethers would cause way too many issues. SMN's would either be forced to use their range pet (therefore lowing their DPS a little), or be out right excluded from difficult fights.

The lore is one reason, but we all know that a full sized Primal (even just Behemoth mount sized) would only cause issues.

[Spellbinder]

Could someone show me where people are asking for Ifrit to step out of the Bowl of Embers to come fight for them in person? I also think it's a preposterous idea, but I just haven't seen that anywhere...

Some SMN's aren't happy with egi's and wish they could summon Primals. That's what I'm taking a jab at.

I know what you're jabbing at, but I can't recall anyone who seriously proposed summoning primals. I say seriously because there's a certain someone (we all know who I mean) who makes rather outlandish proposals that most people ignore for the sake of their sanity.

[Nestama]

Some SMN's aren't happy with egi's and wish they could summon Primals. That's what I'm taking a jab at.

[OmegaNovaios]

Everyone single job, not exaggerating here, has gotten changes to balance them with the other jobs over the past year and half. The reason some have received more attention than others is because they are broken when compared to the ideal for its competition. Dragoon has gotten the most attention lately because it wasn't viable in the latest coil and squeaked by in the second coil. Summoner is getting the best possible changes without a drastic revamp of the job. They would have to make it an actual pet-centric class to justify adding new summons instead of new caster skills first.

SMN an actual pet-centric class?

[Minorinz]

You don't need 10 pets to call summoner a summoner you know, scholar is summoning pets and those pets aren't even primals, either way it's not as powerful and mighty as you want it to be. I mean think about it, please. What do you think about the current pet design? Don't you think it's lacking in terms of control and efficiency? It's obvious yet you want more of those fail AI pets? I think at this point people only want those pets just for show because going like "I CAN SUMMON 6 PRIMALS, TOO GOOD" meanwhile because it's so messed up you'll be at the bottom on the dps list because nobody wants a casting class that can't be on par with the rest of the dps classes. Oh yeah must be the "I want to have fun" excuse, well if summoning pets is fun and that's all you want out of this class then I think they can make a useless class where people can just summon a different pet every 2 mins and let it do all the work while you watch and do nothing. Fun!

[Kaethra]

Going to add: if SMN's could summon a full sized Primal, no one would ever want them to join their Coil parties. Not being able to see who has Divebomb markers, T10 charge markers/tether or T11 tethers would cause way too many issues. SMN's would either be forced to use their range pet (therefore lowing their DPS a little), or be out right excluded from difficult fights.

The lore is one reason, but we all know that a full sized Primal (even just Behemoth mount sized) would only cause issues.

Ehh there is a way around that. The same EQ did it with their oversized pets: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...tml?spell=3583

From what I remember, it could be used twice to get the pet down to 25% size. Basically turning an oversized primal into the Egi size it is now. Let them look crazy big while soloing, and then when in groups, they get toned down.

[LTEvil]

I forgot where I saw it. But someone suggested we just rename smn evoker. Remove egis and turn it in to a stance job.

[OmegaNovaios]

You don't need 10 pets to call summoner a summoner you know, scholar is summoning pets and those pets aren't even primals, either way it's not as powerful and mighty as you want it to be. I mean think about it, please. What do you think about the current pet design? Don't you think it's lacking in terms of control and efficiency? It's obvious yet you want more of those fail AI pets? I think at this point people only want those pets just for show because going like "I CAN SUMMON 6 PRIMALS, TOO GOOD" meanwhile because it's so messed up you'll be at the bottom on the dps list because nobody wants a casting class that can't be on par with the rest of the dps classes. Oh yeah must be the "I want to have fun" excuse, well if summoning pets is fun and that's all you want out of this class then I think they can make a useless class where people can just summon a different pet every 2 mins and let it do all the work while you watch and do nothing. Fun!

It's not about pet quantity as much as it is about pet quality. I don't care how many pets I have as long as I have more than one to choose from where each is viable in most fights.

The pet needs more interaction with the player.

As it stands pets do more damage in Obey stance than Sic stance because the extra abilities they get hinder their performance due to eating the GCD. The only action you will use is Contagion. But guess what you won't even be using that because Ifrit is stronger now unless you are AOEing with bane (which is rare in a case where it matters). Why do pets have 4 actions each if 1 action is really just an auto-attack and the other 3 just hinder the auto-attack?

Titan was a cool concept, but he can't provoke so you have to have him out the ENTIRE fight to build proper enmity in case the tank dies. But really no one plans on the tank dieing anyway. It certainty doesn't warrant losing X% of DPS as a mediocre fail-safe. And who has a pet for just solo? Who care about soloing in an MMO? You should be able to summon Titan mid-fight with Provoke and have him be viable for tanking in dire situations. If anything it would be nice just to be able to soak up some damage and let him die and let aggro fall back to the main tank mid-fight.

Why do we have 2 DPS pets when they just give each other competition? Either have the DPS pets specialize in something or make 1 a support pet instead. I would more pets and less overall DPS similar to BRD/MCH if they gave out buffs/debuffs instead.

Although it's not complicated to make both Ifrit and Garuda viable DPS pets w/o being forced to use one over the other due to sheer number crunching. Just have 1 pet be high risk, high reward. Ifrit is a melee fighter, give him actions like Blood for Blood or something similar but even more risky. If the pets dies then you have to spend MP and time to resummon him. Or have 1 pet combo with the player similar to DRG Wyvern breath in FFXI. That would be pretty cool too.

But either way a pet w/o interaction who just sits there an auto-attacks is just dumb for 1 pet. If that's the plan then it would be more fun to have more than 1 pet.

I'll be honest the gap filler for SMN with 3.0 is pretty cool with trance dance, but at the end of the day I want pet role versatility and pet interaction other than just press Obey and your done with the pet for the rest of the fight. Otherwise it's not really a pet job.

Personally I'd like to see a healing pet (similar to SCH pet) which will pull some strain off healers w/o making SMN a full on healer. A buffing pet, maybe have it restore MP/TP, increase party wide defense, or buff party auto-attacks with Enthunder if Ramuh. And a debuffing pet, maybe actions like lower monster attack for 10s with a 1m CD similar to how a tank would pop CD for a tank killer, lower all monster defense by 10% for a DPS check with a 5m CD. I'm sure SE can balance it better than I can.

[Lemuria]

You got Akh Morn. That's literally better than anything anyone else got. Stop complaining.

I find it hilarious that people are getting all excited for one skill based on name alone. You're throwing around "Akh Morn" like it's the holy grail of all things summoner when in reality all it does is provide a single AoE nuke which Black Mage has had in their arsenal since the start of the game. If they gave us some 200 potency attack called 'Megaflare' you'd probably all be going crazy over that too based on the name alone.

It's worth noting that in the demos, these jobs were level 60 and had very high level equipment on. Everyone drooled at the damage, but it's really not all that impressive. If you follow the same chain for a Black Mage's Flare (a spell which is already darned close to Akh Morns power already), Black Mage still comes out on top by that point. And furthermore, it's on a charge system so you can't even cast it freely, unlike BLM.

So, terribly sorry I'm not as excited for Akh Morn as the rest of you. It was foolish of me to assume a summoner would have anything to do with actual summoning.