DPS is too slow guys! (OMG!!!)

[Souljacker]

Sorry, I would argue that, to any new player, everything is new content for them regardles on how long it has been available, and they shouldn't have to put up with impatient people pushing them through cut scenes, dungeons, raids, etc.
I personally am not prejudiced against anyone learning through DF, especially if they aren't in an FC or LS and have no friends to help them through the content.
Unfortunately it seems that there are a lot more impatient people out there that want to just push on through all the content with little regard for those that want to enjoy the game on their own terms.
Luckily most FC's on my server prides themselves on helping out instead of pushing through, thinking of the team instead of just themselves.

But you just illustrated my point precisely. "New to you" isn't the same as "New" - if the resources are there why not glance at them and save yourself and 7 other people some grief? If you want to go into blind then by all means put together a party for that in PF because that's what it's there for - like minded people to build party with like-minded players. It doesn't necessarily belong in the Duty Finder at this stage in content. There's a reason Coils didn't get put immediately into the DF.

This has nothing at all to do with being "impatient" or just "thinking of themselves". I help those who help themselves. Make even a minimal effort and it goes really far with a lot of people. Put in no effort and you just look lazy or trollish.

[Shori]

I do not understand the greif DPS get (as a whole) because theres 4 players in a full party that are DPS, not all of them are bad, and they are certainly not all the same job or play styles.
If you want to call out a particular something theyre doing wrong and show them how to do it better then by all means - thats actually good feedback and is likely to change the outcome of the next attempt. "Bad DPS" means youve no clue how to fix it, so its all a waste of time.
I'm having to throw way back to the days of Titan Ex here, where DPS were constantly blamed but realy the team needed to reflect and realise MNK is having trouble with positionals so suggest the android app that lets him/her know when weight of land is coming, DRG and BLM are having trouble with weight of land because the healers arent stood together with the team -easy fix, and ta-da! WIN!

[TruebladeNuke]

I see this thread has dissolved into yet another argument about what DF is supposed to be for. Why can't people just unite and agree on what it's for already? o/

Alas, no matter what's said about this topic though, people continue to argue back and forth about this. Only one thing to do in this case:

[Risvertasashi]

I do not understand the greif DPS get (as a whole) because theres 4 players in a full party that are DPS, not all of them are bad, and they are certainly not all the same job or play styles.
If you want to call out a particular something theyre doing wrong and show them how to do it better then by all means - thats actually good feedback and is likely to change the outcome of the next attempt. "Bad DPS" means youve no clue how to fix it, so its all a waste of time.
I'm having to throw way back to the days of Titan Ex here, where DPS were constantly blamed but realy the team needed to reflect and realise MNK is having trouble with positionals so suggest the android app that lets him/her know when weight of land is coming, DRG and BLM are having trouble with weight of land because the healers arent stood together with the team -easy fix, and ta-da! WIN!

Calling out someone for failed mechanics is easy.

But when the DPS are doing less damage than the tanks and healers, and we wipe to failed DPS check or enrage... We can't call them out cause parsers are apparently the app-spawn of satan.

So we're left with "bad DPS".

[Miitan]

The problem isn't their failure but in your way of dealing with it. Cheer them on, encourage them. I often use [Let's do it!] and cheer emote. I tank alot of coil in DF and most of the time it ends in failure. But if you cheer and encourage. You might be pleasantly surprised how much harder they try because they want to appease the Karma Gods. If it doesn't work, oh well, queue again.

If only cheering people on magically increased their dps by 100...

[Ayuhra]

I'm commenting on a DPS thread so before anyone checks me on Lodestone: my gear is terrible, my rotation needs tightening and I still don't understand certain boss telegraphs. If I placed a giant neon sign over my head that said "NOOB" it would be a lateral move.

Still, I have experience DPSing in multiple MMOs at this point and the thing about DPS is you are more likely to see them get belligerent and defensive sometimes. It's sort of a knee-jerk attempt at shifting blame. ANYONE in a MMO may do this but with DPS it's slightly more common because MMO culture tells us we are replaceable. We, as individuals, do not matter. If you are a DPS and you mess up you're gone. Someone else will come in two seconds later. You better have done the content before, you better have the best gear, you better be a subscribed user of WTFast. If you are not, well...there are plenty of people out there who do fit the bill. Especially at this point in a game's lifespan.

Some people can only take so much of this "you are a replaceable number generator" mindset before snapping. Then they usually hit the point where the problem is YOU because maybe "the tank was not doing things I am used to" (even if the tank was following the known strategy perfectly) or "where was heals?" (even if they fell to their deaths) or "I'm having fun, you're just elitist snobs".

The thing to take away from this is: Belligerent DPS are trying to bandage their egos, most of the time. Don't take it personally.

[Magusrex]

I have made my peace with this. Because meters are not allowed, apathetically bad players can hide as DPS. They are not subject to the same standards as tanks or healers. It isn't going to change, insulting them or even offering advice can shut them down and make it even worse. Going off on a tirade just makes you the villain and getting that upset is not worth it. You get a hint you are grouping with that just leave, nothing is worth getting that aggravated over. That policy will cause you to leave few people who don't deserve it but you have to do what you have to do to stay sane.

[Seku]

Except for sunken temple when people don't know bees take priority and die on doom,.

If your weapon is upgraded you shouldn't have problems keeping hate, and are easily found from npc merchants. Low level roulette give you enough gil with 1-3 runs to get just about any weapon or armor you'd ever need for level 1-49.

if you sub-target the bees you can watch for final sting and then you've got two options. Stun. If you've got a good healer, Defense CD to greatly reduce damage and then they heal you up

[FrejyaAthenes]

I'm commenting on a DPS thread so before anyone checks me on Lodestone: my gear is terrible, my rotation needs tightening and I still don't understand certain boss telegraphs. If I placed a giant neon sign over my head that said "NOOB" it would be a lateral move.

Still, I have experience DPSing in multiple MMOs at this point and the thing about DPS is you are more likely to see them get belligerent and defensive sometimes. It's sort of a knee-jerk attempt at shifting blame. ANYONE in a MMO may do this but with DPS it's slightly more common because MMO culture tells us we are replaceable. We, as individuals, do not matter. If you are a DPS and you mess up you're gone. Someone else will come in two seconds later. You better have done the content before, you better have the best gear, you better be a subscribed user of WTFast. If you are not, well...there are plenty of people out there who do fit the bill. Especially at this point in a game's lifespan.

Some people can only take so much of this "you are a replaceable number generator" mindset before snapping. At that point they usually hit the point where the problem is YOU because maybe "the tank was not doing things I am used to" (even if the tank was following the known strategy perfectly" or "where was heals?" (even if they fell to their deaths) or "I'm having fun, you're just elitist snobs".

The thing to take away from this is: Belligerent DPS are trying to bandage their egos, most of the time. Don't take it personally.

That reminds me of what someone else posted in one of these topics: The fact that the role itself is called DPS rather than Damager or something like that adds a dehumanizing element. While I'm inclined to agree, what can ya do?

Also, as nice a speech that was, I can't help but feel that last part may have killed your arguement, as someone can easily just respond with "get thicker skin."

[Ayuhra]

That reminds me of what someone else posted in one of these topics: The fact that the role itself is called DPS rather than Damager or something like that adds a dehumanizing element. While I'm inclined to agree, what can ya do?

Also, as nice a speech that was, I can't help but feel that last part may have killed your arguement, as someone can easily just respond with "get thicker skin."

Well that's why I used the term "some people". Some DPS do get thicker skin. Eventually you get MMO callouses and just shrug things off. Also, when you get more experienced you are much less likely to use the Elitism card. From what I've seen the very best DPS don't talk smack. They don't have to belittle people or place blame. They just win.