The Monk Temple Reborn

[Ossom]

Now I'm not going to assume Twin Snakes or Dragon Kick are factored in and just assume that they effect all attacks equally in this example.

You're in Couerl Form and you pop Tornado Kick with no buffs. (Rounded Nearest)

Doing this I realized one of my previous calcuations on demolish were completely incorrect. My apologies.

1. GL3 TK (500 X 1.27%) = 635 Potency. Compared to GL3 Snap Punch (180 * 1.27) 228 Potency. 407 Potency Gain.
2. Snap Punch 180 Potency. Compared to GL3 Bootshine (150*1.5*1.27) 289 Potency 109 Potency Lost.
3. GL1 Boosthine (150 * 1.5 * 1.09) = 246 Potency. Compared to GL3 Truestrike (190 * 1.27) 241 Potency. 5 Potency Gain
4. GL1 True Strike (190 * 1.09) = 207 Potency. Compared to GL3 Snap Punch (180 * 1.27) 229 Potency. 22 Potency Lost
5. GL1 Snap Punch (180 * 1.09) = 196 Potency. Compared to GL3 Dragon Kick (150 * 1.27) 191 Potency 5 Potency Gain
6. GL2 Dragon Kick (150 * 1.18) = 177 Potency. Compared to GL3 Twin Snakes (140 * 1.27) 178 Potency 1 Potency Lost
7. GL2 Twin Snakes (140 * 1.18) = 165 Potency. Compared to GL3 Demolish (310 * 1.27) 394 Potency 229 Potency Lost
8. GL2 Demolish (310 * 1.18) = 365 Potency. Compared to GL3 Bootshine (150*1.5*1.27) 289 Potency. 76 Potency Gain

This comes out to 135 Potency gain. Now were in the green. Unfortunately, we forgot to account for AAs (Which make up about 1/3rd of our dmg).
Say we do 7 Auto Attacks during this time, 1 after each attack starting at Tornado Kick and not counting after step 8.

7 * 127 = 889 From 7 attacks with GL3

100 + 109*3 + 118 *3 = 781 From 7 Attacks, 1 w/o GL, 3 w/ GL1, 3 w/ GL2

135+781-889 = 27 Potency Gain at the end of the entire rotation, this does not factor in attack speed buffs from GL, or any lose of Dragon Kick or Twin Snakes on either rotation or not including B4B or IR or XPot or Vulnerability Buff or Astro's Dmg Buff.

At the end of the day there probably is a way to make it work into an optimal rotation but in these circumstances I think its a DPS lost until I factor in B4B/IR dropping right after its use or something along the lines of that. Also, Im not sure how AAs work under GL, I only know they get 127% Dmg modifier, I don't know if they get the 115% Attack speed Modifier.

Thinking about it. I don't see popping an unbuffed Tornado Kick as a dps increase at anytime execpt when the boss is leaving us. Otherwise Monks rotation would be Get GL3 > Pop Tornado > Get GL3 > Pop Tornado.

[Craiger]

Now I'm not going to assume Twin Snakes or Dragon Kick are factored in and just assume that they effect all attacks equally in this example.

You're in Couerl Form and you pop Tornado Kick with no buffs. (Rounded Nearest)

Doing this I realized one of my previous calcuations on demolish were completely incorrect. My apologies.

1. GL3 TK (500 X 1.27%) = 635 Potency. Compared to GL3 Snap Punch (180 * 1.27) 228 Potency. 407 Potency Gain.
2. Snap Punch 180 Potency. Compared to GL3 Bootshine (150*1.5*1.27) 289 Potency 109 Potency Lost.
3. GL1 Boosthine (150 * 1.5 * 1.09) = 246 Potency. Compared to GL3 Truestrike (190 * 1.27) 241 Potency. 5 Potency Gain
4. GL1 True Strike (190 * 1.09) = 207 Potency. Compared to GL3 Snap Punch (180 * 1.27) 229 Potency. 22 Potency Lost
5. GL1 Snap Punch (180 * 1.09) = 196 Potency. Compared to GL3 Dragon Kick (150 * 1.27) 191 Potency 5 Potency Gain
6. GL2 Dragon Kick (150 * 1.18) = 177 Potency. Compared to GL3 Twin Snakes (140 * 1.27) 178 Potency 1 Potency Lost
7. GL2 Twin Snakes (140 * 1.18) = 165 Potency. Compared to GL3 Demolish (310 * 1.27) 394 Potency 229 Potency Lost
8. GL2 Demolish (310 * 1.18) = 365 Potency. Compared to GL3 Bootshine (150*1.5*1.27) 289 Potency. 76 Potency Gain

This comes out to 135 Potency gain. Now were in the green. Unfortunately, we forgot to account for AAs (Which make up about 1/3rd of our dmg).
Say we do 7 Auto Attacks during this time, 1 after each attack starting at Tornado Kick and not counting after step 8.

7 * 127 = 889 From 7 attacks with GL3

100 + 109*3 + 118 *3 = 781 From 7 Attacks, 1 w/o GL, 3 w/ GL1, 3 w/ GL2

135+781-889 = 27 Potency Gain at the end of the entire rotation, this does not factor in attack speed buffs from GL, or any lose of Dragon Kick or Twin Snakes on either rotation or not including B4B or IR or XPot or Vulnerability Buff or Astro's Dmg Buff.

At the end of the day there probably is a way to make it work into an optimal rotation but in these circumstances I think its a DPS lost until I factor in B4B/IR dropping right after its use or something along the lines of that. Also, Im not sure how AAs work under GL, I only know they get 127% Dmg modifier, I don't know if they get the 115% Attack speed Modifier.

Thinking about it. I don't see popping an unbuffed Tornado Kick as a dps increase at anytime execpt when the boss is leaving us. Otherwise Monks rotation would be Get GL3 > Pop Tornado > Get GL3 > Pop Tornado.

You've got it some wrong there I'm sorry.

Tornado Kick is oGCD, which completely changes that...

Tornado Kick (500 * 1.27) = 635. 635 Potency gained
1. Snap Punch(180). Compared to GL3 Snap Punch(180 * 1.27) = 228. 48 Potency lost
2. GL1 Bootshine(150 * 1.5 * 1.09) = 245. Compared to GL3 Bootshine(150 * 1.5 * 1.27) = 285. 40 Potency lost
3. GL1 True Strike(190 * 1.09) = 207 Potency. Compared to GL3 Truestrike (190 * 1.27) 241 Potency. 34 Potency lost
4. GL1 Snap Punch (180 * 1.09) = 196 Potency. Compared to GL3 Snap Punch (180 * 1.27) 229 Potency. 33 Potency lost
5. GL2 Dragon Kick (150 * 1.18) = 177 Potency. Compared to GL3 Dragon Kick (150 * 1.27) 191 Potency 14 Potency lost
6. GL2 Twin Snakes (140 * 1.18) = 165 Potency. Compared to GL3 Twin Snakes (140 * 1.27) 178 Potency 13 Potency lost
7 GL2 Demolish (310 * 1.18) = 365 Potency. Compared to GL3 Demolish (310 * 1.27) 394 Potency. 29 Potency lost

I did it differently when calculating it the first time, and I don't know how it could be such a big difference... but either way, that's a 424 potency increase in that scenario

Now, it's 1.2 seconds slower, and I didn't account for auto-attacks... Which according to you is a 108 potency lost. It still is a 316 potency increase.

Even if there is something we haven't accounted into the calculations, I doubt it's gonna come even remotely close to that 316 potency increase

[Jamein]

Snip

Not that I'm saying you're math is wrong here, I agree with it on principal, but something can't be right. With this we are essentially saying that with a 316 potency increase that we should be using Tornado kick whenever it comes off CD, which is every 60 seconds. So we're going to be blowing our GL3 stacks once a minute and rebuilding it every single time if those potencies are anything to go by and to me that just seems, off.

Like I said, not disagreeing with the math AT ALL, I just feel like somethings missing or maybe this is the way SE wanted to take the monk so the class was less about maintaining GL3 and more about building it up to blow it and burst.

I mean if you look at our burst capability right now if a boss is about to go invuln and we are going to lose GL3 and we have full chakra we can blow both attacks for a pretty heft number.
Torando kick = 500*1.27 = 635
Forbidden Chakra = 400*1.27 = 508

Thats 1143 Potency in one GCD as one is an oGCD, that's pretty impressive and is about the same potency as a double flare which amounts to 1216 I believe .
Had to re-work that out I'm not sure if my math is right on that one.
260 potency
30% from trait
80% from atsral fire 3
260*1.3*1.8 = 608

[Craiger]

Not that I'm saying you're math is wrong here, I agree with it on principal, but something can't be right. With this we are essentially saying that with a 316 potency increase that we should be using Tornado kick whenever it comes off CD, which is every 60 seconds. So we're going to be blowing our GL3 stacks once a minute and rebuilding it every single time if those potencies are anything to go by and to me that just seems, off.

Like I said, not disagreeing with the math AT ALL, I just feel like somethings missing or maybe this is the way SE wanted to take the monk so the class was less about maintaining GL3 and more about building it up to blow it and burst.

I mean if you look at our burst capability right now if a boss is about to go invuln and we are going to lose GL3 and we have full chakra we can blow both attacks for a pretty heft number.
Torando kick = 500*1.27 = 635
Forbidden Chakra = 400*1.27 = 508

Thats 1143 Potency in one GCD as one is an oGCD, that's pretty impressive and is about the same potency as a double flare which amounts to 1130 if I worked that out correctly (260 potency plus 30% for trait + 87.5% for Astral fire 3. = 565 for a flare)

Btw, I only used the "1.27" multiplier because it was easier comparing to the other guy, you have to include the bonus damage you get from DK, Twin snakes and Fist of Fire... which brings that potency up even higher.

As for there being something wrong... like I said, maybe I'm missing something, but I honestly can't come up with anything that would be better than using this when off CD.

Now, keep in mind that the increased potency of using Tornado Kick right before the boss jumps, is pretty much double the gain of using it in your normal rotation... So it might be better to hold on to it if you know the boss is gonna jump or something within a minute of the ability being off CD.

Yoshi-P specifically said that currently MNK is all about keeping the GL stacks, and that it would kinda change for 3.0... So wouldn't surprise me if this is the case.

As much as I hate losing GL, you are using a GL generating ability right after it, so it wouldn't be as annoying, and you would be able to get the DK debuff off much earlier than having to get through a whole combo like you do when you start from scratch without PB.

On the point of PB... I haven't even thought about how you could use that to get back the GL stacks even faster after using Tornado Kick. That could be an even bigger gain. There are times when you don't need PB anyways for transition... I'm not the best at this, so I'll leave that calculating to someone else.

[Ossom]

You've got it some wrong there I'm sorry.

Tornado Kick is oGCD, which completely changes that...

Tornado Kick (500 * 1.27) = 635. 635 Potency gained
1. Snap Punch(180). Compared to GL3 Snap Punch(180 * 1.27) = 228. 48 Potency lost
2. GL1 Bootshine(150 * 1.5 * 1.09) = 245. Compared to GL3 Bootshine(150 * 1.5 * 1.27) = 285. 40 Potency lost
3. GL1 True Strike(190 * 1.09) = 207 Potency. Compared to GL3 Truestrike (190 * 1.27) 241 Potency. 34 Potency lost
4. GL1 Snap Punch (180 * 1.09) = 196 Potency. Compared to GL3 Snap Punch (180 * 1.27) 229 Potency. 33 Potency lost
5. GL2 Dragon Kick (150 * 1.18) = 177 Potency. Compared to GL3 Dragon Kick (150 * 1.27) 191 Potency 14 Potency lost
6. GL2 Twin Snakes (140 * 1.18) = 165 Potency. Compared to GL3 Twin Snakes (140 * 1.27) 178 Potency 13 Potency lost
7 GL2 Demolish (310 * 1.18) = 365 Potency. Compared to GL3 Demolish (310 * 1.27) 394 Potency. 29 Potency lost

Did it say anywhere where Tornado Kick won't take a GCD to perform? Just because it has a cooldown doesn't mean it won't take a GCD do the animation, etc.. You're pretty much giving your rotation one extra attack. If it is completely oGCD then yeah blowing GL3 every minute is going to be the new meta. Man that's going to suck.

[Jamein]

Did it say anywhere where Tornado Kick won't take a GCD to perform? Just because it has a cooldown doesn't mean it won't take a GCD do the animation, etc.. You're pretty much giving your rotation one extra attack. If it is completely oGCD then yeah blowing GL3 every minute is going to be the new meta. Man that's going to suck.

https://youtu.be/kbvv0rgrT4k?t=79
I believe this is where the tornado kick starts (1:19) and then it goes into the AoE (the big kamehama ha blast) if thats the case its a pretty short animation, and looks like we're going to be saying bye bye stacks hello burst.

Also, speaking of the AoE, thats 300 potency, 381 with GL3 throw in the other two high potency attacks and we're starting to see monk really have a fair amount of burst skills to use at certain points in a fight.

On the point of PB... I haven't even thought about how you could use that to get back the GL stacks even faster after using Tornado Kick. That could be an even bigger gain. There are times when you don't need PB anyways for transition... I'm not the best at this, so I'll leave that calculating to someone else.

On that note, can you imagine if we pop both burst skills, and then hit PB and go back into the usual PB opener? Looking at some pretty nice damage spikes.

[Craiger]

https://youtu.be/kbvv0rgrT4k?t=79
I believe this is where the tornado kick starts (1:19) and then it goes into the AoE (the big kamehama ha blast) if thats the case its a pretty short animation, and looks like we're going to be saying bye bye stacks hello burst.

Also, speaking of the AoE, thats 300 potency, 381 with GL3 throw in the other two high potency attacks and we're starting to see monk really have a fair amount of burst skills to use at certain points in a fight.

The AoE attack is not in that video.

All info I'm using is from the PCgamesn guy and his Twitch Live stream last night... He has played MNK in the new dungeons at the Event in France, and he said that Tornado Kick is oGCD

Believe there was other sources saying it was oGCD too, so yeah... I'm pretty sure.

EDIT: This document have all we know about the attacks from the jobs so far.

EDIT 2: People are working on translating the Japanese articles too, which might shed some more light on it all... but while the PCgamesn guy didn't know too much about all jobs, he mains MNK, and knew much more about them than others, so I'll believe what he said until proven otherwise.

[Ossom]

yeah from the looks of it, one of those attacks has to be oGCD. Either the AoE Back Flip skill, or the GL Lost skill.

[Jamein]

The AoE attack is not in that video.

Are we sure? I'll stand corrected but the document you posted is the one I was getting my information from and to me it looked like the monk did tornado kick/Elixir Drive/Forbidden Chakra in that order.

The google doc says

Elixir Drive - Kamehameha-like beam attack after a flip. 300 Potency, AoE ability. Can be casted while moving.

Which sort of looks like what the second skill is after the monk does the kick? Although now that I watch it again, the ball at the end does look like it has a wind element which would suggest it is tornado kick

If that big ball beam after the flip is part of tornado kick then it is a pretty long animation afterall, going by the time stamps on the video it starts at 1:20 and ends at 1:22 so about a 2 second animation give or take?

Definitely looking like we will be blowing GL3 every minute or so for this though seeing as its oGCD.

[Craiger]

Are we sure? I'll stand corrected but the document you posted is the one I was getting my information from and to me it looked like the monk did tornado kick/Elixir Drive/Forbidden Chakra in that order.

The google doc says

Which sort of looks like what the second skill is after the monk does the kick? Although now that I watch it again, the ball at the end does look like it has a wind element which would suggest it is tornado kick

If that big ball beam after the flip is part of tornado kick then it is a pretty long animation afterall, going by the time stamps on the video it starts at 1:20 and ends at 1:22 so about a 2 second animation give or take?

Definitely looking like we will be blowing GL3 every minute or so for this though seeing as its oGCD.

The guy from the stream(again), have played with the job, and he specifically went throught MNK video and said that it was Tornado Kick followed by Forbidden Chakra... and then went on about the AoE, and that it's not in the video. He even tried to paint the attack in paint for us to get an idea. It won't look anything like that attack on the video