Why punish players who just want to play DoL DoH?

[Lewtskie]

As far as I see it, as much as an MMO is about joining skills and working together, they've designed this game for an individual to be branched out among all aspects. Just as those who keep to DoL/H are now seeing themselves gated, DoW/M characters have been walled off from certain things that required crafting. Now we were always able to sidestep with the aid of those who just crafted through market board or them being able to slot materia for us, just as we were always able to give them materials you'd only ever find in DGs, Raids, or Trials. That said, this trend will most likely continue... maybe.

You can't log in to their game and tell they can take their story and shove it. Well... I mean you can, but I doubt you'll get any quarter by doing so... anyway, story is important to them and they want it played out by everyone. In any case, until you get up there in DoW/M, you may have to just depend on those with their DoW/M as we've had to depend purely on you crafters in the past.

[kyuven]

Offline games, perhaps. I can't think of another successful mmo that forces questing in this manner. When an expansion hits, if you are at level cap, you step into the new expansion.

FFXI required and still requires a quest to access Kazham, the Treasures of Aht Uhrgan zones, the CoP zones, the Adoulin Zones, and the Abyssea zones. You MUST be a minimum of lvl 30 to access most of those, and even the ones that don't have a level minimum require either a hefty sum of gil and/or drops from specific mobs that can be anywhere from the 20s to the 60s, or are simply beefgated behind difficult encounters.
EQ1 had a minimum level requirement of 51 to access the Planes of Power content beyond the new hub zone.

And see the thing is about the old level requirements...they were much, much harder to achieve than 50 is in this game. It takes less time to get all your MSQs done in this game than it did to get to 50 in EQ1 and FFXI.
Why am I OK with gating content? Because it has always and will always be gated. We need to be prepared before we step into the new zones, especially since all indicators tell me it'll be designed with i90+ players in mind, because something people ALSO complained about was the lack of "challenging overworld content" which they're apparently addressing.
I LIKE that they're doing this. It makes it so you can't just skip old content to get to new content.

Very much so. What people don't realize is that there are some people who ONLY do gathering/crafting.. and for the entire duration of ARR, it's worked just fine.

This is a lie. You were required to have a DoM/DoW at a certain level to unlock the crafting/gathering classes to begin with.
You were required to have DoM/DoW at a certain level to unlock Leves.
You were required to do MSQs to unlock GCs, which give you a more efficient means to get crafting and gathering levels.
You were required to do MORE quests with the GCs to get access to your chocobo, and more still to get access to the items required to make things such as Lucis tools. ("But you can get those from leves!" see above please)
You were required to have a DoM/DoW at 50 to unlock and do the Ixal crafting quests that are even more efficient.
Why is it such a stretch to expect you'd be required to meet certain conditions to make use of the new areas too?

[Malevicton]

Offline games, perhaps. I can't think of another successful mmo that forces questing in this manner. When an expansion hits, if you are at level cap, you step into the new expansion.

I understand that a sizable portion of this particular playerbase is perfectly ok with gating others out of content (for whatever reason), but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't have a discussion on the subject. Square made their bed when they decided to make crafting such a big deal in this game. It's only natural to expect those crafters to now feel bait-and-switched.

I never said we couldn't have a discussion, just participated in the discussion myself :/ Sorry?

Most crafters aren't only crafters. Most of them also participate in battle content to some degree. requiring msq just means that you have to have participated in the bare minimum of battle content. If this game had more of a crafting/battle dichotomy, then I could see crafters feeling bait-and-switched, but the demographic of people who want to craft exclusively is insanely small. Which is why I feel like this topic is blowing things completely out of proportion.

Like I said, if this is inconvenient, then sorry. That sucks. But no one is being punished, and the gameplay doesn't really need to be redesigned just so people can circumvent the majority of content and speed their way to the one thing they like.

[Airget]

This' honestly... a really great point.

Up until now, you could experience all this game had to offer for DoH/DoL without ever having to complete MSQ or enter combat-content.

It's pretty sad that players who wish to play like this will be locked out form Ishgard due to MSQ gating.

Blame RMT, the whole reason they are adding this roadblock is to thwart RMT activity. By allowing no restrictions to DOL/DOH RMT could easily go in and take control of things like the shard market or other lucrative gil earning items.

By adding this it forces the RMT to be more cautious and overall hopefully discourage them from their activities.

Think of it like this what would you prefer:

Option 1: No restriction to DOL/DOH accessibility in 3.0 so any RMT can just get a DOL/DOH to 60 and then proceed to play the market

or

Option 2: Go through the Main Story Quest once on one high level job and then enjoy the 3.0 DOL/DOH content.

For the player Option 2 is only done once, as long as they aren't doing anything illegal it's one and done. For RMT however, they get caught and bam they have to go through the main story again. Honestly I prefer Option 2 as it allows legit DOL/DOH a better experience in the market by making it harder for RMT to just go 1-60 and have full reign over the market.

[Destomius]

lmao, apparently having to play the game is considered "punishment" now.

[GenJoe]

Most crafters aren't only crafters. Most of them also participate in battle content to some degree. requiring msq just means that you have to have participated in the bare minimum of battle content. If this game had more of a crafting/battle dichotomy, then I could see crafters feeling bait-and-switched, but the demographic of people who want to craft exclusively is insanely small. Which is why I feel like this topic is blowing things completely out of proportion.

Like I said, if this is inconvenient, then sorry. That sucks. But no one is being punished, and the gameplay doesn't really need to be redesigned just so people can circumvent the majority of content and speed their way to the one thing they like.

It's true, most people already have combat classes at the ready, but a large portion of them don't have their MSQ up to date, still a minority, but it's always the minority of the player base that gets shafted.

Gameplay doesn't need to be redesigned to alleviate this, SE just needs to admit that Ishgard gating behind MSQ for reasons of lore is just silly.. When there are so many other things in the game that clash with the lore, might as well just open it up and let people access Ishgard without all that questing. I honestly don't see how this kind of change would affect other players at all, SE can still enforce a level gate to keep out the true unprepared adventurers.. When one of my character's core concept is that of a traveling merchant, much like Torneko of DQ series, or Chongara from Arc the Lad, it really sucks that I have to now make them into a seasoned veteran of combat

lmao, apparently having to play the game is considered "punishment" now.

Really? How would you like it if one of the 2.55 MSQ was catching a large fish for the Sultana's feast? Not even something you can do at level 10 FSH, or even 30 FSH, something hard to catch and you need gear for.. Say around 350 gathering stats?(~1 star gathering)If you want lore, you're in charge of seafood for the feast and otherwise you can't get into the Sultana's feast to advance onto the next quest and you'll be locked out of Heavensward contents before you do this. Does that sound like fun?

This is a lie. You were required to have a DoM/DoW at a certain level to unlock the crafting/gathering classes to begin with.

Sure.. to level 10, 17 if you want retainers (essential) 20 if you want Chocobo (optional)

You were required to have DoM/DoW at a certain level to unlock Leves.
You were required to do MSQs to unlock GCs, which give you a more efficient means to get crafting and gathering levels.

You still have access to leves from the major cities without, that's how I did it on my alt.
GC unlock, daily turn-ins are a nice boost, but again not a necessity.

You were required to do MORE quests with the GCs to get access to your chocobo, and more still to get access to the items required to make things such as Lucis tools. ("But you can get those from leves!" see above please)

For GC promotion yes, but other than the lucis mats, everything else you can buy from MB. Lucis tools are good, but 4stars can be done without.

You were required to have a DoM/DoW at 50 to unlock and do the Ixal crafting quests that are even more efficient.

Level 41 to be exact. Most crafters don't farm their own sealants btw, I don't think you need clarification on that part.

Why is it such a stretch to expect you'd be required to meet certain conditions to make use of the new areas too?

Because up until this point, everything was just a suggestion, a soft lock that you can bypass by the use of MB or making deals with other people. i.e. You could specialize as a crafter and have deals with people and you could maintain your identity as a Blacksmith, Armourer, etc. etc. You could even be Culinarian Extraordinaire! But with the HW requirements, it's a hard lock, no way to work around it. I know a crafter who's quitting the game just because of that reason, people like her are probably a rarity, but it DOES happen.. and for what?? Just to make the "lore" work? Seems like a small price to pay, sure.. But for what gain?? There is none. So they're alienating a very small portion of the player base, to please nobody.

[kyuven]

but it's always the minority of the player base that gets shafted.

Well, yes, because it's physically impossible to please everyone.
There will always be a minority that "gets shafted" whenever something new comes out. This happens in real life too.

[Terribad]

I keep alluding to this, but this game is not a MMO wrapped in FF branding, it's an FF game wrapped with MMO elements. The story is the main focus.

There's other MMOs that's heavily story driven as well that still has side stuff, like crafting, not locked behind main story content.

[Delily]

It's true, most people already have combat classes at the ready, but a large portion of them don't have their MSQ up to date, still a minority, but it's always the minority of the player base that gets shafted

Gameplay doesn't need to be redesigned to alleviate this, SE just needs to admit that Ishgard gating behind MSQ for reasons of lore is just silly.. When there are so many other things in the game that clash with the lore, might as well just open it up and let people access Ishgard without all that questing. I honestly don't see how this kind of change would affect other players at all, SE can still enforce a level gate to keep out the true unprepared adventurers.. When one of my character's core concept is that of a traveling merchant, much like Torneko of DQ series, or Chongara from Arc the Lad, it really sucks that I have to now make them into a seasoned veteran of combat

How exactly are you getting the shaft? Seriously, how long have you known you needed to complete the 2.55 MSQ to gain access to Ishgard? At this point, if you have a level 50 battlecraft class and you haven't completed the MSQ knowing full well it's a requirements, the onus is on you to change, not SE.

The developers and designers of ARR have been very clear that this is a theme park raiding MMO. This is also a Final Fantasy game, where your character(s) have always been at center of these world changing events, thick in the action. I can't think of any game in the series where the main protagonist has been a travelling merchant.

The core design of the game does not support the concept of a travelling merchant, not for player characters. The issue here is SE has not built the game you want to play. They can not be all things to all people, ignoring the 800 lb gorilla of WoW, the cost of producing an MMO is so low the company needs to focus to distinguish themselves from other products in the market.

For FFXIV, that's the story. Unlike other games where the story is background or disjointed (WoW), or you follow a random set of disjointed quests to reach the endgame, and then go defeat big mobs because they're there, almost every activity in this game is tied to the main quest, or is related to it (Coil, CT).

The reason 3.0 is locked behind 2.55 is because the 3.0 story line is another chapter in the FFXIV world. Simply because you don't like it means you're not being punished, it means you're playing the wrong game.

[Delily]

Really? How would you like it if one of the 2.55 MSQ was catching a large fish for the Sultana's feast? Not even something you can do at level 10 FSH, or even 30 FSH, something hard to catch and you need gear for.. Say around 350 gathering stats?(~1 star gathering)If you want lore, you're in charge of seafood for the feast and otherwise you can't get into the Sultana's feast to advance onto the next quest and you'll be locked out of Heavensward contents before you do this. Does that sound like fun?

Ironically, to get to Titan, you do need to prepare a feast, but I digress.

The problem with this comparison is that it wouldn't make sense. Why would the sultana want the Warrior of Light to prepare her meals? Even as an adventurer, once you beat Ifrit, people were more interested in your combat skills than your cooking. Your time is better served making sure the next Big Bad is defeated, not making meals. We keep going in circles here, but the point is, SE has not built the game you want to play. They don't have to, and if you're not happy with FFXIV, find another MMO that you do want to play. No one is right or wrong here, just a mismatch between what you want and what SE wants.