Why punish players who just want to play DoL DoH?

[Malevicton]

Offline games, perhaps. I can't think of another successful mmo that forces questing in this manner. When an expansion hits, if you are at level cap, you step into the new expansion.

I understand that a sizable portion of this particular playerbase is perfectly ok with gating others out of content (for whatever reason), but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't have a discussion on the subject. Square made their bed when they decided to make crafting such a big deal in this game. It's only natural to expect those crafters to now feel bait-and-switched.

I never said we couldn't have a discussion, just participated in the discussion myself :/ Sorry?

Most crafters aren't only crafters. Most of them also participate in battle content to some degree. requiring msq just means that you have to have participated in the bare minimum of battle content. If this game had more of a crafting/battle dichotomy, then I could see crafters feeling bait-and-switched, but the demographic of people who want to craft exclusively is insanely small. Which is why I feel like this topic is blowing things completely out of proportion.

Like I said, if this is inconvenient, then sorry. That sucks. But no one is being punished, and the gameplay doesn't really need to be redesigned just so people can circumvent the majority of content and speed their way to the one thing they like.

[GenJoe]

Most crafters aren't only crafters. Most of them also participate in battle content to some degree. requiring msq just means that you have to have participated in the bare minimum of battle content. If this game had more of a crafting/battle dichotomy, then I could see crafters feeling bait-and-switched, but the demographic of people who want to craft exclusively is insanely small. Which is why I feel like this topic is blowing things completely out of proportion.

Like I said, if this is inconvenient, then sorry. That sucks. But no one is being punished, and the gameplay doesn't really need to be redesigned just so people can circumvent the majority of content and speed their way to the one thing they like.

It's true, most people already have combat classes at the ready, but a large portion of them don't have their MSQ up to date, still a minority, but it's always the minority of the player base that gets shafted.

Gameplay doesn't need to be redesigned to alleviate this, SE just needs to admit that Ishgard gating behind MSQ for reasons of lore is just silly.. When there are so many other things in the game that clash with the lore, might as well just open it up and let people access Ishgard without all that questing. I honestly don't see how this kind of change would affect other players at all, SE can still enforce a level gate to keep out the true unprepared adventurers.. When one of my character's core concept is that of a traveling merchant, much like Torneko of DQ series, or Chongara from Arc the Lad, it really sucks that I have to now make them into a seasoned veteran of combat

lmao, apparently having to play the game is considered "punishment" now.

Really? How would you like it if one of the 2.55 MSQ was catching a large fish for the Sultana's feast? Not even something you can do at level 10 FSH, or even 30 FSH, something hard to catch and you need gear for.. Say around 350 gathering stats?(~1 star gathering)If you want lore, you're in charge of seafood for the feast and otherwise you can't get into the Sultana's feast to advance onto the next quest and you'll be locked out of Heavensward contents before you do this. Does that sound like fun?

This is a lie. You were required to have a DoM/DoW at a certain level to unlock the crafting/gathering classes to begin with.

Sure.. to level 10, 17 if you want retainers (essential) 20 if you want Chocobo (optional)

You were required to have DoM/DoW at a certain level to unlock Leves.
You were required to do MSQs to unlock GCs, which give you a more efficient means to get crafting and gathering levels.

You still have access to leves from the major cities without, that's how I did it on my alt.
GC unlock, daily turn-ins are a nice boost, but again not a necessity.

You were required to do MORE quests with the GCs to get access to your chocobo, and more still to get access to the items required to make things such as Lucis tools. ("But you can get those from leves!" see above please)

For GC promotion yes, but other than the lucis mats, everything else you can buy from MB. Lucis tools are good, but 4stars can be done without.

You were required to have a DoM/DoW at 50 to unlock and do the Ixal crafting quests that are even more efficient.

Level 41 to be exact. Most crafters don't farm their own sealants btw, I don't think you need clarification on that part.

Why is it such a stretch to expect you'd be required to meet certain conditions to make use of the new areas too?

Because up until this point, everything was just a suggestion, a soft lock that you can bypass by the use of MB or making deals with other people. i.e. You could specialize as a crafter and have deals with people and you could maintain your identity as a Blacksmith, Armourer, etc. etc. You could even be Culinarian Extraordinaire! But with the HW requirements, it's a hard lock, no way to work around it. I know a crafter who's quitting the game just because of that reason, people like her are probably a rarity, but it DOES happen.. and for what?? Just to make the "lore" work? Seems like a small price to pay, sure.. But for what gain?? There is none. So they're alienating a very small portion of the player base, to please nobody.

[kyuven]

but it's always the minority of the player base that gets shafted.

Well, yes, because it's physically impossible to please everyone.
There will always be a minority that "gets shafted" whenever something new comes out. This happens in real life too.

[Delily]

It's true, most people already have combat classes at the ready, but a large portion of them don't have their MSQ up to date, still a minority, but it's always the minority of the player base that gets shafted

Gameplay doesn't need to be redesigned to alleviate this, SE just needs to admit that Ishgard gating behind MSQ for reasons of lore is just silly.. When there are so many other things in the game that clash with the lore, might as well just open it up and let people access Ishgard without all that questing. I honestly don't see how this kind of change would affect other players at all, SE can still enforce a level gate to keep out the true unprepared adventurers.. When one of my character's core concept is that of a traveling merchant, much like Torneko of DQ series, or Chongara from Arc the Lad, it really sucks that I have to now make them into a seasoned veteran of combat

How exactly are you getting the shaft? Seriously, how long have you known you needed to complete the 2.55 MSQ to gain access to Ishgard? At this point, if you have a level 50 battlecraft class and you haven't completed the MSQ knowing full well it's a requirements, the onus is on you to change, not SE.

The developers and designers of ARR have been very clear that this is a theme park raiding MMO. This is also a Final Fantasy game, where your character(s) have always been at center of these world changing events, thick in the action. I can't think of any game in the series where the main protagonist has been a travelling merchant.

The core design of the game does not support the concept of a travelling merchant, not for player characters. The issue here is SE has not built the game you want to play. They can not be all things to all people, ignoring the 800 lb gorilla of WoW, the cost of producing an MMO is so low the company needs to focus to distinguish themselves from other products in the market.

For FFXIV, that's the story. Unlike other games where the story is background or disjointed (WoW), or you follow a random set of disjointed quests to reach the endgame, and then go defeat big mobs because they're there, almost every activity in this game is tied to the main quest, or is related to it (Coil, CT).

The reason 3.0 is locked behind 2.55 is because the 3.0 story line is another chapter in the FFXIV world. Simply because you don't like it means you're not being punished, it means you're playing the wrong game.

[GenJoe]

No, I'm ready to get caught up.. I already have my combat class at the ready to tackle it, it's just annoying that I have to do it in order to satisfy SE's idea of lore accuracy when there are so many other things wrong with it than this one little thing.

it means you're playing the wrong game.

In an MMO, that's a very hard argument to win, lots of people have different ways of playing the game and for a good reason, I sure as hell wouldn't want to gather all my own mats for crafting.. and I'm sure you wouldn't want to craft all the low level gear that you can just buy from other people etc..

So basically, we're in an interconnected society where each person has a role to fill. A new chapter is about to open, and only the warriors are allowed to go there, everyone else on the fringe will have to take out their training swords and get fightin'.

I've accepted that to be the case, I'm ready to do my MSQ, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's more than a minor annoyance for really, not a very good reason.. To keep RMT out of Ishgard? To make the lore accurate? Come on, I could really use a better reason than that to get through all dem quests.

I can get all my gear from dungeons so invalid.

Okay then.. let's make it food/potions for raids? Are you completely self sufficient? I know a few people who are, but they are very very rare..

[Barimu]

and I'm sure you wouldn't want to craft all the low level gear that you can just buy from other people etc..

I can get all my gear from dungeons so invalid.

[Delily]

In an MMO, that's a very hard argument to win, lots of people have different ways of playing the game and for a good reason, I sure as hell wouldn't want to gather all my own mats for crafting.. and I'm sure you wouldn't want to craft all the low level gear that you can just buy from other people etc..

I don't need to win it. Parley was present in 1.0, and was removed for 2.0. Simply because they are multiple (4) types of players (achievers, socializers, killers, explorers) does not mean a game has to support them all.

So basically, we're in an interconnected society where each person has a role to fill. A new chapter is about to open, and only the warriors are allowed to go there, everyone else on the fringe will have to take out their training swords and get fightin'.

I keep saying how this is not a MMO first, it's an FF game first. You made another post about there being multiple warriors of lights. There are not, from the story's perspective, you are the only WoL. Anytime you have been in a group, the game has phrased it as you are gathering forces. The interconnected society you are referring to exists, but has little bearing on the actual game itself, especially since you don't need crafting to clear the highest content.

I've accepted that to be the case, I'm ready to do my MSQ, but it still doesn't change the fact that it's more than a minor annoyance for really, not a very good reason.. To keep RMT out of Ishgard? To make the lore accurate? Come on, I could really use a better reason than that to get through all dem quests.

Again, this is a Final Fantasy game. The main quest has ALWAYS been the driver.

[Miya_Carbuncle]

Honestly, I just wish you didn't need a DoW/DoM to unlock leves for DoH/DoL. Seems like a silly limitation IMO.

Just coming from someone who was really into crafting when I was new on my old character (before fantasia potions were a thing ).

[Delily]

Really? How would you like it if one of the 2.55 MSQ was catching a large fish for the Sultana's feast? Not even something you can do at level 10 FSH, or even 30 FSH, something hard to catch and you need gear for.. Say around 350 gathering stats?(~1 star gathering)If you want lore, you're in charge of seafood for the feast and otherwise you can't get into the Sultana's feast to advance onto the next quest and you'll be locked out of Heavensward contents before you do this. Does that sound like fun?

Ironically, to get to Titan, you do need to prepare a feast, but I digress.

The problem with this comparison is that it wouldn't make sense. Why would the sultana want the Warrior of Light to prepare her meals? Even as an adventurer, once you beat Ifrit, people were more interested in your combat skills than your cooking. Your time is better served making sure the next Big Bad is defeated, not making meals. We keep going in circles here, but the point is, SE has not built the game you want to play. They don't have to, and if you're not happy with FFXIV, find another MMO that you do want to play. No one is right or wrong here, just a mismatch between what you want and what SE wants.

[Destomius]

Really? How would you like it if one of the 2.55 MSQ was catching a large fish for the Sultana's feast? Not even something you can do at level 10 FSH, or even 30 FSH, something hard to catch and you need gear for.. Say around 350 gathering stats?(~1 star gathering)If you want lore, you're in charge of seafood for the feast and otherwise you can't get into the Sultana's feast to advance onto the next quest and you'll be locked out of Heavensward contents before you do this. Does that sound like fun?

My time would be better spent actually doing it, rather than crying about it on the forums.

Edit: or i'd just buy the fish