The whole Summoner "has been re-worked" is sad

[SirDiscoFrog]

"In times immemorial, there lived mages who had not only the power to summon the primals, but also the means to transmute the primals' essences, thus binding them to their will." Blue Magic is spell that cast an enemy skills. Akh Morn is an enemy skill. You not summoning Bahamut Egi so it's blue magic. Even in the Belias fight, Tristan still absorbs the Egi to power himself up, key being there was an Egi on the field.

But whats to stop you from skipping the step of bringing the egi to the field? You're still using the primals said powers for your own, just skipping the Summon step. Summoners are still calling upon the essence of Bahamut, but instead of summoning an egi, they just use it to gain new abilities. Vs a Blue Mage which can use the abilities of any enemy from experiencing it, Summoners in 14 absorb the primal's essence to use said move.

Besides its not like egis are still gone forever, its just an additional connection to the primals. We still have our egis that we summon ourselves in addition to being able to tap into greater primal abilities.

It sounds to me you're trying everything possible to make it Blue Magic

He really is trying isn't he lol. With that technically speaking Tristian was a BLU. Whether or not the egi was on the field really is not a big deal because you're still getting the power from the same source; The Primal. To which the move even shows a lil cute Baha-mini(Id rather it look much scarier but to each their own lol) hovering over you to show you are transmuting the powers of Bahamut, hence Dreadwyrm Trance.

[FelixWindwright]

"In times immemorial, there lived mages who had not only the power to summon the primals, but also the means to transmute the primals' essences, thus binding them to their will." Blue Magic is spell that cast an enemy skills. Akh Morn is an enemy skill. You not summoning Bahamut Egi so it's blue magic. Even in the Belias fight, Tristan still absorbs the Egi to power himself up, key being there was an Egi on the field.

It sounds to me you're trying everything possible to make it Blue Magic... Bahamut Egi doesnt need to be on the field to be able to Transmute its Essence. It's simple evoking of the primal essence to perform "Akh Morn" or whatever the SMN spell will be called because we don't know everything yet it's still using his Essence, just not in a permanently physical way. So your quote proves me correct so thanks for backing that up with fact.

[Musashidon]

https://youtu.be/kbvv0rgrT4k?t=126

summoner clearly summons bahamut to use the skill.

[Natsuno]

"In times immemorial, there lived mages who had not only the power to summon the primals, but also the means to transmute the primals' essences, thus binding them to their will." Blue Magic is spell that cast an enemy skills. Akh Morn is an enemy skill. You not summoning Bahamut Egi so it's blue magic. Even in the Belias fight, Tristan still absorbs the Egi to power himself up, key being there was an Egi on the field.

Source? For Akh Morn being an enemy skill? I mean there's some database or prio FF that this spell is in that has it listed, right? "Enemy Skill learned by Blue Mage". Or can I run around shouting Thunder/Cure/Stone Skin/etc are enemy skill because some enemies cast them?

Genuinely curious about this

[Nestama]

I wouldn't say summon, but perhaps channels? Evoker?

[Karen_Cerfrumos]

Yes, I can see it now! Its just sitting there on my hotbar at my disposal! Cant wait to be doing 999,999,999 and blasting away half the battlefield...oh wait I guess people have never played warcraft, this ability is called "moon fire" and is learned at level 10 for druids.

It's like comparing Niagara waterfall with indoor plumbing.

[Musashidon]

Genuinely curious about this

bahamut primes skill.
https://youtu.be/kbvv0rgrT4k?t=126

I wouldn't say summon, but perhaps channels? Evoker?

you can get technical and say he doesn't summon the whole body so it's not summoning.

i see it more like a viable way to use normal summons (the one where you summon them they use a big attack and leave) instead of a 30 second cutscene.

i would love to be able to use hell fire and other such attacks too from other primals. (course we aren't using megaflare so i would accept like ifrits flamethrower attack garuda's windswipe ect ect)

[Natsuno]

bahamut primes skill.
https://youtu.be/kbvv0rgrT4k?t=126

That's not what I'm asking for. I'm asking for a referance that says that this is an Enemy Skill that is learned by a Blue Mage. Jumping up and down saying "Blue Mage Enemy Skill" doesn't cut it. I want proof that by FF lore, it is an enemy skill that a blue mage uses, or I'll site my above argument that any skill that an enemy uses can be considered a 'blue mage enemy skill', and as such, most of the current classes/jobs currently have enemy skills.

[FelixWindwright]

I wouldn't say summon, but perhaps channels? Evoker?

I mean this genuinely without playing dumb, but are we not using the same words to describe a class where evoke and summon are both valid terms to use when referring to a class called Summoner?

As already cited Summoner is essentially meddling with primal essences and in 2.0 the main way was by manifestation of Egi's. However not to get spoilerific but throughout the main story line quest we've discovered new ways of manipulating this energy and the upgrades in 3.0 might actually just be an evolution of Summoner to a different direction (perhaps one thats not popular with some), but I personally thinks its an interesting slant on the class.

[Musashidon]

That's not what I'm asking for. I'm asking for a referance that says that this is an Enemy Skill that is learned by a Blue Mage. Jumping up and down saying "Blue Mage Enemy Skill" doesn't cut it. I want proof that by FF lore, it is an enemy skill that a blue mage uses, or I'll site my above argument that any skill that an enemy uses can be considered a 'blue mage enemy skill', and as such, most of the current classes/jobs currently have enemy skills.

their arguement is you are using an enemy skill, and no ahk morn is ff14 orginal.