Take it easy on the Nerfing :/

[Tuathaa]

Uhh.....

uhhhhh....


Did you... play Vanilla WoW? Molten Core? Black Wing Lair? AQ40? NAXX???????

Yes I did. Guess what in no way did you or were you required to do those raids to progress from one xpac to the other.
Wows highest subs ever were from wotlk and that had to do with making raiding accessible by everyone.
Currently their decline is do to bad decisions such as integrating twitter instead of fixing game breaking bugs and they thought and still think strongholds are fun
If they made AQ 40 a requirment to enter TBC the game would have died right there. Or Sunwell to enter WoTLK it would have ended also.

[Barimu]

I don't understand peoples time restraints if you can't put time into an MMO get a single player or co-op game then.

[StrejdaTom]

I don't understand peoples time restraints if you can't put time into an MMO get a single player or co-op game then.

Actually there wouldn't be a problem with playing MMO while time restrained.
The problem starts when people who play 10 hours a week expect the same outcome as people who play 50 hours a week.

[Skivvy]

Actually there wouldn't be a problem with playing MMO while time restrained.
The problem starts when people who play 10 hours a week expect the same outcome as people who play 50 hours a week.

I had actually typed up a massive post, then deleted it because I got lost on my point (lol), but that is one of the things I mentioned.

People need to have reasonable expectations of what they can accomplish in game based on the amount of time they are able to spend.

I personally do not do coil, at all. I work full time, and have a husband & toddler who eat up a good chunk of my time, and so it's just never worked out for me. I am 100% OK with that, but I still enjoy the things I have been able to do in game.

I think a big issue with this thread (and the others) is that a lot of people are unfairly labeling all "casual" players as being unskilled, lazy, and just wanting things handed to them on a silver platter, and that's just not true. I am assuming a lot of people will label me a casual since I don't do Coil, and that's fine. But as a casual player, I have almost all jobs & DoH/L at 50, I keep my main jobs fairly-well geared (playing a bit of catch-up now after an 8+ month break), and I do actually care about my performance for the fights that I am able to partake in. Despite what some people think, plenty of "casual" players do actually have quite a bit of skill.

Once people can stop claiming all casuals behave the same and only try to take the easy way out, perhaps the conversation on nerfs can actually become something worthwhile.

[Niwashi]

Actually there wouldn't be a problem with playing MMO while time restrained.
The problem starts when people who play 10 hours a week expect the same outcome as people who play 50 hours a week.

It's more a matter of expecting that someone who plays 10 hours a week should be able to reach the same point in 5 weeks that someone who plays 50 hours a week will get to in 1. But this is where the issue of having content start hard and be nerfed later kicks in, though. It relies on everyone who wants the challenging version being among the ones who have the time to get there first. Time and playstyle preferences don't match up that way.

If, on the other hand, they create both hard and easier versions and maintain both of them, regardless of whether players get to it the day it's released or a couple years later, then it's the players themselves getting to choose how they want to pursue that content. In terms of what's being developed, and even what needs to be done to earn the content's rewards, it's no different from the hard version early, nerfed version later pattern, except for disentangling that pattern from the timing of when the content is available.

I have high hopes for Alexander. At least it sounds as though it's going to be following the right pattern. I just hope it's done well.

[LunaHoshino]

If, on the other hand, they create both hard and easier versions and maintain both of them, regardless of whether players get to it the day it's released or a couple years later, then it's the players themselves getting to choose how they want to pursue that content. In terms of what's being developed, and even what needs to be done to earn the content's rewards, it's no different from the hard version early, nerfed version later pattern, except for disentangling that pattern from the timing of when the content is available.

This is all I want, honestly. I didn't start playing until September of last year, so by the time I got to Second Coil, it had already been nerfed-- and I was mad, because I wanted to try the unnerfed version but was cheated out of it simply because I started playing at the wrong time. It wasn't even a matter of not having much time to play, it was a matter of getting started late.

It's hardly fair that the players who start playing when content is no longer brand-new are forced into nerfed versions of it whether they like it or not.

[Gardes]

This is all I want, honestly. I didn't start playing until September of last year, so by the time I got to Second Coil, it had already been nerfed-- and I was mad, because I wanted to try the unnerfed version but was cheated out of it simply because I started playing at the wrong time. It wasn't even a matter of not having much time to play, it was a matter of getting started late.

It's hardly fair that the players who start playing when content is no longer brand-new are forced into nerfed versions of it whether they like it or not.

Don't hold your breath. There will be demands for nerfs to alex hard sooner or later.

[AdamFyi]

Don't hold your breath. There will be demands for nerfs to alex hard sooner or later.

There will be demands, but the chance that SE will actually adjust the fights is pretty slim considering that part of the reason that Coil was nerfed was due to it having huge story details behind it; which they want players to experience. The Alexander raid is unique since it has both a Story mode and a Hard mode. If anyone were to demand nerfs, they're obviously in it just for the shinies.

[Nestama]

Don't hold your breath. There will be demands for nerfs to alex hard sooner or later.

But why? I feel the nerfs for Coil are just so people can experience the story.

[Barimu]

Actually there wouldn't be a problem with playing MMO while time restrained.
The problem starts when people who play 10 hours a week expect the same outcome as people who play 50 hours a week.

Well put, but the problem has already begun and looks to be never ending. It also bothers me when people expect to duty find everything they need to, get to know people, make party finders/learning parties etc instead of just trying to jump into a duty finder and expect a clear. I think the problem most MMOs face today is people want to be able to do everything solo and never have to socialize and that's not how they should play or expect an MMO to cater to them.