Take it easy on the Nerfing :/

[Spiritreaver1217]

I would love to see better difficulty=reward. It's a done to death argument but I still feel that things like i130 should have stayed coil-exclusive until the next tier was unlocked (not freebies by hunts/towers) so that the logical progression would be dungouns (4-man) = 110 + poetic 120; tower = 120, and FCOB = 130.

Hell, I'd love to see some raid difficulty level 4 man content that rewards i120/130. Master level dungouns with real mechanics and rewards? Yes, please!

Liked and agree 100%.

Content like Assault and Salvage from FFXI. Completely optional and almost punishing at times and rewards that were completely balanced for the amount of effort. And the best bit of course that it was 4 man content.

Again, love the idea.

[Nestama]

This makes me very curious about English servers, because on Carbuncle I regularly see Savage groups in party finder.

For T7 Savage though? T7 Savage is supposedly the hardest Turn due to how absolutely unforgiving it is and how perfect everyone needs to be.

[Ditto]

I would love to see better difficulty=reward. It's a done to death argument but I still feel that things like i130 should have stayed coil-exclusive until the next tier was unlocked (not freebies by hunts/towers) so that the logical progression would be dungouns (4-man) = 110 + poetic 120; tower = 120, and FCOB = 130.

Hell, I'd love to see some raid difficulty level 4 man content that rewards i120/130. Master level dungouns with real mechanics and rewards? Yes, please!

I like all of it, but the only thing I don't know about is having coils be the only i130 gear. There are already cases where people are choosing lower ilvl gear because they just have better stats. If they go a linear route where Coils, or whatever top raid at the time has the best of the best, the stats need to actually be good for the class the piece is suppose to be for. (Looking at you Spellspeed for Summoners, and Parry for Warriors)

What I feel they really need to do is stop with the linear progression, and add a second raid. 1 raid could drop 1 statted set, the other raid could drop the other statted set, and people can mix them however they like. (Ex. FCOB drops Dread gear, some other hard 8 man on scale with FCOB drops i130 Ironworks gear, and then there is just a different set in general for tomestones that are 10 - 15 ilvl's lower) Give people more to do overall, still lets them mix and match, and doesn't immediately put a piece of someones gear to 'best in slot' just because they ran a few dungeons for a week and bought a piece of armor from an NPC.

[Neuflune]

For T7 Savage though? T7 Savage is supposedly the hardest Turn due to how absolutely unforgiving it is and how perfect everyone needs to be.

No idea because the Party Finder does not display the Turn number (it cuts off at Sava...). Server just got back up and there's already a Savage group at party finder though.

[Havenae]

You have to consider that we're talking about content that all players have to clear simply to progress the main story line. So that includes 'players' who are reasonably inept at gaming.

[matt8107t]

I feel the population of this game that enjoys challenging content and doesn't complain does need to start being more vocal. There needs to be people letting we know that there is people who enjoy the tougher content and oppose all this I want it now with no effort attitude that is being expressed on the forums every day.

[Kallera]

I feel the population of this game that enjoys challenging content and doesn't complain does need to start being more vocal. There needs to be people letting we know that there is people who enjoy the tougher content and oppose all this I want it now with no effort attitude that is being expressed on the forums every day.

Why? There is already savage content in the works. Walling people off from experiencing whole parts of the game forever is foolish and will lead to people(not just the ones you don't like) quitting or simply ignoring the content, which leads to low clear/participation rates, and basically the devs putting their hard work for only a handful of people while the rest stagnate on the game and get bored, tweleve help you then if the devs decide on making that same hard content necessary for even more stuff sans adjustments.

What you are asking for, requires either a more comprehensive change than you might think. If "learning" becomes "imposing", It will be cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Ibi]

What is key, in my opinion, is that the power-as-reward method is problematic and should be abolished entirely from progression content.

Removing the power-as-reward method would remove the motivation for at least some subset of what's already a small portion of the population.

Raid instances generally get an unbalanced proportion of development time (compared to the number of people participating in it), which is why we're getting two difficulties for Alexander. SE want more people participating in that kind of content, not fewer.

Of course, you can justify having extremely niche content (challenge, with no power rewards) with things like Savage SCoB, since that means you don't have to develop a lot of new assets, but then people just complain about it being "recycled content" instead.

That leaves the only options as:

1) Make the hardest content in the game easy enough to do in a pick up group. Of course, this is going to anger any statics who want challenging group content.

2) Exclude most of their paying customers from any access to the content they're paying for.

3) Make sure all the rewards are available through easier content, and that the most challenging content simply provides somewhat faster access to them, along with the pride and enjoyment that comes from the challenge itself.

I wouldn't say they're the only options. Just to come up with some completely random things totally off the top of my head:

4) Introduce the content at a high level of difficulty, directed at organized groups, and start incrementally decreasing the difficulty after it's been available for some amount of time, or when new content is added.

5) Provide comparable (rather than identical) rewards that can be obtained through easier content.

I feel the population of this game that enjoys challenging content and doesn't complain does need to start being more vocal. There needs to be people letting we know that there is people who enjoy the tougher content and oppose all this I want it now with no effort attitude that is being expressed on the forums every day.

I suspect that the population of the game that enjoys tougher, challenging content is already proportionally more vocal than those that either don't enjoy it or don't care.

It's just that the second group is several times the size of the first, so even with a smaller portion being vocal, they still have more total voices.

[Magis]

Thankfully, in the future SE is going to split everything giving the people who want ez mode their free clear, and people who want meaningful content their's.

"Muh difficulty! Muh prestige! Muh content I don't even do anymore but I want to stay hard so others cant catch up to me!" - This thread, 2015

Yes, SoF was ultimate end game difficulty. It was literally the hardest thing ever created, and there was no way to catch up to people who being "gods among men", surpassed such an instance.

lol

[StrejdaTom]

Thankfully, in the future SE is going to split everything giving the people who want ez mode their free clear, and people who want meaningful content their's.

Which is the best step they have taken so far in this whole matter. I don't want to be thankful before seeing the Alexander, but it might work well.