Take it easy on the Nerfing :/

[Iromi]

Serious version of the above post:

If you want challenge, do content when it's new.

The longer something sticks around, it's made easier by equal parts people becoming accustomed to it, gear outclassing it, and SE cutting the numbers a bit because they believe extremely correctly that those looking for a challenge have gotten it from it already.

There you go, you got it, yeah..if I wanna play the game as a brand new player 6 months after content came out, I want to play it how it originally came out, not nerfed stuff.

[Ablongman]

Savage being released was an afterthought, and one that people did not care for in the end, as the argument of wanting to do something for a challenge falls short there.

This is important. People whine up a storm whenever content gets nerfed because "OMG THE CHALLENGE," but what they REALLY mean is that they want rewards gated behind inaccessible content so they can cement their superiority in numbers: not only can they claim to be more skilled, but they can BE numerically superior. Which in itself is telling, because I bet you these players don't divest all their i130's to do FCoB at the minimum ilvl for the challenge. That'd be inefficient for farming up all the loot, which is what they're actually there for: to get exclusive rewards and lord them over the peasants. All this challenge talk is code for wanting to keep the gap between them and those they view as their lessers as wide as possible.

If Savage was done RIGHT, it'd normalize item level, so that gear is not a factor and thus unnecessary as a reward. You succeed, or fail, by virtue of your skills, not your gear. You get rewards that show your success, but don't give power. But you just know, given what we've seen, that such a model would be a massive flop, because what these people want isn't challenge. It's the smug satisfaction of being demonstrably better than other players.

The flaw in the design (and this doesn't just apply to Savage) is that players have grown accustomed to being rewarded with the most power when they need it the least (once they've cleared the content). Sure, the hardcore players "earned" their loot, but do they NEED it? All they're doing once they've cleared a tier is farming it, and they've shown by virtue of clearing that they don't NEED the extra power, they just want it for efficiency. You know who NEEDS that power? The casual static still struggling at First or Second Turn, because maybe they're not as coordinated, or don't have as much time, and could clear with that little extra oomph. All you're doing by depriving them of power is widening the gap between them and the hardcore, and fostering a community of sociopaths, posers and social Darwinists, which describes the raiding population pretty accurately (and I speak as someone who was part of this crowd in college and knows better now).

You can't pander to these people, because what these people want requires excluding the majority of the playerbase from content that, at least in this game, is story-relevant. I don't expect Yoshi-P and crew to be particularly brave with this, but I do welcome incremental content nerfs and player buffs to at least allow players to get a clear that won't be entirely irrelevant for a few weeks.

[Iromi]

No one does Savage because the reward is nothing worth the trouble. A title? Really? :x Not worth the effort ^^;

[Goodberry]

There you go, you got it, yeah..if I wanna play the game as a brand new player 6 months after content came out, I want to play it how it originally came out, not nerfed stuff.

Wow (not the game). This is rich. It's practically saying: "Square Enix, cater to MY needs NOW because I could start playing your game six months from now!"

[RiceisNice]

There you go, you got it, yeah..if I wanna play the game as a brand new player 6 months after content came out, I want to play it how it originally came out, not nerfed stuff.

Honestly if it's been 6 months, it's going to be relatively easy compared to on release anyway either due to familiarity (HM primals for example), overgearing, or both.

Increased familiarity doesn't apply as much to SoF because realistically, your typical player would not do it again because there's nothing to farm out of it or being required for a constant objective (such as the original trio HMs for either light farming or base relic quests).

I can't really vouch for "overgearing" either, me and two other dps who were Ilvl120+ would attack vishap throughout the fight (and I mean these are people that can meet the dps check for T13... not someone off the mill) and we'd still get vishap down sometime after the barrel explodes, with full uptime on the cannons and DKs.

[SDaemon]

No one does Savage because the reward is nothing worth the trouble. A title? Really? :x Not worth the effort ^^;

So a challenge without superior gear rewards is a challenge not worth taking, despite the desire for a challenge?

[Lamentations]

The guys who have been blessed with young age, fast reflexes, unlimited time to play and people who pay their bills.

Oh I know right?, personally I think SE tries to cover the content difficulty spectrum, Heavensward may expand content well enough to suit everybody, we'll see.

Sometimes I think there's some kind of unspoken retirement age from MMO's, say in the 40-50 area somewhere, lol, I just dinged "53".^^

XI was pretty much a scroll and click ability game, while XIV is much more button mash/dodge intensive, couple this with all the flash bang graphics and my participation in any challenging content comes in shorter sessions now so I don't Achilles heel my own FC mates.

My son laughs at me because I logged for several years, ran jackhammers for several more, and swing a 4 pound anvil hammer as a farrier on regular occasions, this causes me to murder four $30 Logitech controllers with my grip, to his one about every 12 months, lol.

Anyway my MMO days are probably numbered.^^

[Goodberry]

This is important. People whine up a storm whenever content gets nerfed because "OMG THE CHALLENGE," but what they REALLY mean is that they want rewards gated behind inaccessible content so they can cement their superiority in numbers: not only can they claim to be more skilled, but they can BE numerically superior.

If Savage was done RIGHT, it'd normalize item level, so that gear is not a factor and thus unnecessary as a reward. You succeed, or fail, by virtue of your skills, not your gear. You get rewards that show your success, but don't give power.

But that's not what these people want. It's not even about street cred, it's about keeping success (and its rewards) as exclusive as possible.

Right. That's another reason I can never feel any sympathy for "these people".

[Darkshaunz]

This is important. People whine up a storm whenever content gets nerfed because "OMG THE CHALLENGE," but what they REALLY mean is that they want rewards gated behind inaccessible content so they can cement their superiority in numbers: not only can they claim to be more skilled, but they can BE numerically superior.

-snip-

It's not even about street cred, it's about keeping success (and its rewards) as exclusive as possible.

This is pretty much it.

[Iromi]

So a challenge without superior gear rewards is challenge not worth taking, despite the desire for a challenge?

Not sure what world you live in...but people are not going to do something like that that offers no reward at all, because guess what? No one is going to waste their time for something that is not beneficial to their time.

Wow (not the game). This is rich. It's practically saying: "Square Enix, cater to MY needs NOW because I could start playing your game six months from now!"

Um..no. That is what the other person was saying. I am basically saying that the content should stay the same. LOL It goes both ways. I don't think you quite understand what is going on...are you sure you are still in this conversation? That is way in left field. You are basically describing yourself.