Am I the only one that sort of kinda likes the nerf to SoF?

[Airget]

Actually, SoF FORCED people to cooperate. If they still refuse to do so, well, it's THEIR problem. They shouldn't have the content spoon-fed to them. Let them wipe till they learn how to properly behave in a MMO.

Have to consider other content though.

Gilgamesh, pretty straight forward, turn into a frog run away from chickens, go mini run away, see an AOE move away from it.

Ultros/Typhon, Target Ultros, when you turn into kappa(DD always) stand in front of Ultros and get stacks of water, avoid getting hit by AOE, when Typhon is about to sneeze attack his with Kappa ability to stop it, rinse repeat and stay on battlefield to win

Towers:Pull skeletons away, don't kill them next to each other, make sure 6 are all dead before killing boss, repeat 2 times and boss is dead (May wipe first time when skeletons runs towards boss and then you realize oh maybe they shouldn't die next to one another)

SoF:use cannons wait for barrier to break down, when first barrier breaks down run to second set of cannons, continue to hold adds and attack boss, when boss gets close enough use snares, when snares are used wait for call and use Dragon Killer, repeat 3 more times and if you miss once you might as well say GG. (also 0 reward for beating it so no incentive for trying it again or helping others.)

But see this is what you should keep in mind, the trial before it wasn't "nerfed" in any way if I recall and you know why? Because that instance is better coordinated than SoF. SoF is fun in the moment and it's exciting, they were able to nail the feel they were going for but it leaves a bad aftertaste in your mouth when you realize that they sort of through balance out the window when they did it.

For one, you die? Big deal just return and use the warp to get back right in the action. That makes people sloppy because death is now not a big deal, they can die and it's like welp I'll just run back not like it matters.

The duty before it, you fight boss, there are queues for his attacks, his first phase change and gimmick is easy to understand, two orbs, have to pick them up in A B order repeating and if you pick up two of same you take severe damage.

Then the chaotic part of stopping the meteorite from failing, reducing damage and preventing wiping by standing in circular areas while others attack the main target, destroy it and then just finish up the boss. Truth is the last trial is better balanced and more grand, it throws you into a situation but it's easier to read it then it is the last trial.

A thought that crossed my mind yesterday was they could of done it in an extremely different manner while having the Dragon Killer's act as an enfeeble and demoralize the minions with Vishap.

Rather than a random assortment of mobs appearing and having to use the cannon to destroy them, instead the task could be something like 12 dragons have taken to the sky, use the cannons to shoot them down, but be weary of how many you shoot down. You wouldn't need to be told that though because the dragons you would be up against would be the same as the ones found near the end of snowcloak that use that powerful AOE. Except in this fight they would use it in unison, so say you dropped 4-5 at once, odds are with them all doing it at the same time you would wipe, and you wouldn't be able to stun them.

The gimmick of course would be that the dragons in the sky would dead extra damage to the defenses/breaking down the barrier, Vishap would still be walking forwards and instead of random mobs spawning it would just focus on the dragons and trying to take them all out to reduce the damage dealt to the defenses.

The other addition could be that the fight isn't about killing all the dragons in the air but rather eliminating what's needed to weaken Vishap. They could of set it where at the start with 12 dragons Vishap would have high defense and high attack, when you defeat 3 his attack lowers, when you defeat 3 more his defense lowers, if you manage to defeat them all it would slow down Vishap. However the fight would just start with 12 dragons, when a defense breaks down more dragons would enter the fray, let's say 4 at each wall so a total of 12 more dragons woudl appear. If you just ignored the dragons then the following would happen. At 16 higher attack, at 20 higher defense, at 24 higher attacker speed.

So you wouldn't be able to just bumrush Vishap, unless you're prepared for 25% dmg potency dealt to the boss. It would be clear and concise to understand, the dragons around Vishap make him stronger, defeat them to weaken him, to make fight easier, use Dragon Killer to make things easier, if you miss just means you either kill more dragons or attack Vishap harder.

At least here you no longer have the idea of "Miss one Dragon Killer" and you might as well wait til it ends. You could remove the poorly executed "if you die it's ok just return and use teleporter to get back into the action" because now the duty is designed with a better balance and better cooperative action to it.

Cause this is what you have, Vishap starts walking, you see a cannon and use it, you realize it shoots in the sky but nothing happens, your thought is maybe it attacks Vishap if he flies into the air or something else. In this case something else. You see the comment "Dragons have taken to the sky, take them out with the cannons" so you fire the cannon, a dragon mob falls to the ground and starts to target the cannon, the tank pulls it off and the rest take it out. Repeat the process 3 more times and you get a comment that Vishap's att has lowered, you then realize that defeating these Dragons weakens Vishap and at the same time notice that the AOE attacks towards the defense are most likely caused by the aerial dragons.

But ya, that's just my two cents of how they could of kept the grand feel of the battle without sadly poorly executing the trial. Because you honestly can't deny that it wasn't or else they would of never put that comment that "When you fall in combat use return and the teleporter to return to the fight" It's the only Duty that's done that and it's because of how they didn't exactly take the time to properly balance it to make it a fun event where death could be prevented but rather a chaotic one.

[Kikoten]

I just had a thought. I wonder if SE worded their patch notes regarding the nerfs differently, there'd have been less outrage.

For example, instead of saying they reduced such-and-such damage in Steps of Faith, they say that the Ishgardians have improved their technology, and their artillery is now reinforced with upgraded ammunition and casing. As a result, the Ishgardians' fighting spirit have deeply affected you, and together with the Ishgardians, you have become a greater force of reckoning.

[Rendecrow]

I just had a thought. I wonder if SE worded their patch notes regarding the nerfs differently, there'd have been less outrage.

For example, instead of saying they reduced such-and-such damage in Steps of Faith, they say that the Ishgardians have improved their technology, and their artillery is now reinforced with upgraded ammunition and casing. As a result, the Ishgardians' fighting spirit have deeply affected you, and together with the Ishgardians, you have become a greater force of reckoning.

No, I dont think wording it differently would have changed the response! lol

People would eventually figure out what was changed, even if it was cryptically described in the patch notes, only to mindlessly argue about it on the forums.

I personally believe that the change to SoF was good because it is required content. Coils however.... not so much.

[Radacci]

Contradicting yourself from a sentence to another aside, with this one you clearly show us that you have absolutly no idea what kind of player are currently making the MMORPG playerbase, and that you don't know how the market is evolving either.
Wanting "these idiots" to go away is just simply not an option. That's what I meant by "deal with it", it was actually not a trolling attempt. You have to deal with the market evolving and the need to adjust content to the masses (really, the word speaks for itself), especially when said content is needed to get to the very first expension of the game.

You are underestimating the impact and the consequences if you suddenly remove half of the playerbase just because they are not above the average skill level.

Besides, the fact that you find that fight easy doesn't mean that it was for everyone. Again, you are ignoring a big part of the community by simply thinking that your experience with this fight is the same for everyone. It's not. SE have the numbers, you don't. If they though that it was needed to increase the number of people able to complete this trial, so be it, we are not making the game, they are.

On a final note: why do you even care? You've cleared this content already and have no need to go back to it. The only reason why you would do it is because it's a part of the Trial Roulette. Even then, I'm pretty sure that you don't want to deal with bad people making your runs a failure over and over again or even people leaving just before the fight even start.
You have absolutly no valid reason to ask for this fight to remain like it was at launch. None.

i don't want the playerbase to go away, i want them to stop complaining about easy fights, and learn to cooperate, and clear it.
i know that everyone have different skill level, but as i stated, if you can get to SoF, you should be able to clear it. If you think it's a bit tough, then practice until you get it down.
the fight comprise of healers healing, tanks pulling mobs, DD doing cannons. how is that different from any other content? what exactly about the fight is so difficult that so many ppl can't clear it?

I care because they will keep making content easier, to cater to the masses, which means the game will be less exciting/fun to play and i'll probably quit.
I care because there's not gonna be any point in even having any fights at all, since you don't really have to "participate" to clear it. Where's it gonna stop? like the first solo fights in the story, where pap and yda fight the boss for you, and heal you while you deal with adds? they might as well stop making trial content, since ppl don't want/can't cooperate.
I think it's a valid reason to keep it that way, cause SE released it that way. And for ppl to make an effort to learn the fight, and clear it on their own merit, instead of getting carried. Maybe that way they could enjoy the game a little bit more. Personally i don't like getting carried, i want to clear it cause i can.
Also the fight IS easy, as i outlined above, there's really nothing new in the fight, except maybe timing spears, and how hard is that to figure out? If you're new, just heal/tank as usual, if you're DD, do cannons....i just don't see where the difficulty is. It's incomprehensible that ppl find it hard, and need nerf.

[Fyce]

You're right. That is the least we can do. . .Why are we aiming to do the least, again? Why aren't we trying to better people? To inspire them to better themselves?

And why exactly should they adapt to you in order for you to be pleased with the content you want to see?

This is a video game. For a lot of players, it's just a fun thing to spend time on while not caring that much. It's like bowling or minigolf, some people like spending time playing it with their friends, but they have no intention of "becoming better" or improving to match some kind of arbitrary skill level.
Well, there are also people who like playing MMORPG with the same mindset. Shocking, I know, some play a video game for fun only.

These people are a big part of the community, and the devs want to give them some content they may enjoy... So, again, why should they changes their habits, needs and conception of enjoyment of the game just to please you so you can have the content you want to have more of (implying you already have some)?

Isn't that the notion of selfishness? Please, tell me what prevents you from letting these people play like they want while you do your own stuff and occasionnaly faceroll a Main Story fight?

[Twilite]

No you're not the only one.

[Mythrella]

i don't want the playerbase to go away, i want them to stop complaining about easy fights, and learn to cooperate, and clear it.
i know that everyone have different skill level, but as i stated, if you can get to SoF, you should be able to clear it. If you think it's a bit tough, then practice until you get it down.
the fight comprise of healers healing, tanks pulling mobs, DD doing cannons. how is that different from any other content? what exactly about the fight is so difficult that so many ppl can't clear it?

I care because they will keep making content easier, to cater to the masses, which means the game will be less exciting/fun to play and i'll probably quit.
I care because there's not gonna be any point in even having any fights at all, since you don't really have to "participate" to clear it. Where's it gonna stop? like the first solo fights in the story, where pap and yda fight the boss for you, and heal you while you deal with adds? they might as well stop making trial content, since ppl don't want/can't cooperate.
I think it's a valid reason to keep it that way, cause SE released it that way. And for ppl to make an effort to learn the fight, and clear it on their own merit, instead of getting carried. Maybe that way they could enjoy the game a little bit more. Personally i don't like getting carried, i want to clear it cause i can.
Also the fight IS easy, as i outlined above, there's really nothing new in the fight, except maybe timing spears, and how hard is that to figure out? If you're new, just heal/tank as usual, if you're DD, do cannons....i just don't see where the difficulty is. It's incomprehensible that ppl find it hard, and need nerf.

It's possible I missed something, but it's my understanding the complaints were primarily about players abandoning it, not the difficulty level of the fight which requires 8 people instead of the 3 left behind after the rest bailed upon zoning in. The fight took too long, "errybody else are stoopid", they were scared, had a first timer join, whatever excuse. This left the others stuck.

Either way, it was enough to make SE notice:
This left those going through the story stuck in content gating them from the expansion which is a month away. This could mean less Heavensward sales.

Why didn't Yoshi just add a pony or card or something to entice players to stay inside instead, who knows. I would guess those require more time and resources than just nerfing one single fight when the devs obviously have their hands full with Heavensward right now.

This isn't a slippery slope. The big picture is that this is a unique case with an encroaching deadline in June to funnel players through a gate.

If they wanted to cater everything to the super casual and/or bad players, then Coil would be under the nerfbat too, especially given the age of much of it.

Also, sidenote to clarify for some of you. "Casual" is not synonymous with "Bad". There's plenty of casuals who will research a fight, perform their job well and often clear all available content. Bad players won’t do these things, and throwing "hard" fights at them will not force them to "get good" because they simply don't care. It's 2015 I thought everyone knew this by now.

I hate nerfs (they can happen naturally). I love gates. But I’m not going to condemn the expansion, devs or Yoshi for opening the gate to Heavensward.

[Twilite]

Geez.. nerfs really make you people contradict yourselves several times over. It's almost sad.

[Velox]

almost no one wants to step up and give out orders and some people just refuse to cooperate even if it means a win for the team. Were humans. Were a**holes by default.

My first win in Steps of Faith was in a 100% DF group. When the instance started, I assigned every player a role and told them to focus all their attention on said role and trust everyone to do their own. The first run thru was to get everyone acquainted with their roles I assigned, as I wasn't expecting a one-shot anyway given 6 of the 8 were brand new. After we failed, I answered any questions players had and explained what they did wrong and what needed to be fixed. The 2nd run through we downed it. 8 complete strangers over the internet who followed orders.

Not everyone who plays the game is incompetent and not every human is an a**hole. Don't make assumptions like that.

[Viridiana]

And why exactly should they adapt to you in order for you to be pleased with the content you want to see?

This is a video game. For a lot of players, it's just a fun thing to spend time on while not caring that much. It's like bowling or minigolf, some people like spending time playing it with their friends, but they have no intention of "becoming better" or improving to match some kind of arbitrary skill level.
Well, there are also people who like playing MMORPG with the same mindset. Shocking, I know, some play a video game for fun only.

These people are a big part of the community, and the devs want to give them some content they may enjoy... So, again, why should they changes their habits, needs and conception of enjoyment of the game just to please you so you can have the content you want to have more of (implying you already have some)?

Isn't that the notion of selfishness? Please, tell me what prevents you from letting these people play like they want while you do your own stuff and occasionnaly faceroll a Main Story fight?

Right now, the main scenario requires no skill. To use your minigolf and bowling examples, it's like aiming at one pin in a bowling lane that has bumpers over both gutters, or like playing a mini golf lane that's just a straight line with no humps or anything. I'm sure there are people who would like that, but we can both agree that it's not for everyone, right?

I'm not asking for great things, here. I'd like to think I'm a decent player, but I'm almost certainly not among the best. I'm certainly not going to be contending for server or world firsts any time soon. And I'm not asking anyone to get to my level, or to get to the levels of BG or Lucrezia. I'm not even asking to meet in the middle, so to speak. I'm asking that maybe we teach people how a golfball rolls down hill, or how it bounces off the walls to let you get to a hole around a corner. Or maybe remove the bumpers from the bowling lanes.

What kept people from doing SoF before the nerfs, to continue the metaphor, is that some people are so excruciatingly bad at it that it's like they managed to gutter-ball even with the bumpers on. Which wouldn't be so bad (I mean, it's bad but it's kinda tolerable) if there were any actual rewards, especially if the rewards were commensurate with the time. Unfortunately, you have an instance with essentially no rewards and a high time requirement even if you succeed on the first try.

Now, if SE would actually implement stuff (like they started to with Chrysalis and SoF) to try to raise the lowest common denominator, people might actually get better. If people get better, we would expect to see fewer people throwing their bowling ball across three lanes. Which means that when you get an instance like SoF, you can reasonably expect success within the first try or two without also feeling like some of the party aren't pulling their weight at all. All SE has done here is allow people to play worse while still succeeding.