Am I the only one that sort of kinda likes the nerf to SoF?

[Fyce]

You're right. That is the least we can do. . .Why are we aiming to do the least, again? Why aren't we trying to better people? To inspire them to better themselves?

And why exactly should they adapt to you in order for you to be pleased with the content you want to see?

This is a video game. For a lot of players, it's just a fun thing to spend time on while not caring that much. It's like bowling or minigolf, some people like spending time playing it with their friends, but they have no intention of "becoming better" or improving to match some kind of arbitrary skill level.
Well, there are also people who like playing MMORPG with the same mindset. Shocking, I know, some play a video game for fun only.

These people are a big part of the community, and the devs want to give them some content they may enjoy... So, again, why should they changes their habits, needs and conception of enjoyment of the game just to please you so you can have the content you want to have more of (implying you already have some)?

Isn't that the notion of selfishness? Please, tell me what prevents you from letting these people play like they want while you do your own stuff and occasionnaly faceroll a Main Story fight?

[Viridiana]

And why exactly should they adapt to you in order for you to be pleased with the content you want to see?

This is a video game. For a lot of players, it's just a fun thing to spend time on while not caring that much. It's like bowling or minigolf, some people like spending time playing it with their friends, but they have no intention of "becoming better" or improving to match some kind of arbitrary skill level.
Well, there are also people who like playing MMORPG with the same mindset. Shocking, I know, some play a video game for fun only.

These people are a big part of the community, and the devs want to give them some content they may enjoy... So, again, why should they changes their habits, needs and conception of enjoyment of the game just to please you so you can have the content you want to have more of (implying you already have some)?

Isn't that the notion of selfishness? Please, tell me what prevents you from letting these people play like they want while you do your own stuff and occasionnaly faceroll a Main Story fight?

Right now, the main scenario requires no skill. To use your minigolf and bowling examples, it's like aiming at one pin in a bowling lane that has bumpers over both gutters, or like playing a mini golf lane that's just a straight line with no humps or anything. I'm sure there are people who would like that, but we can both agree that it's not for everyone, right?

I'm not asking for great things, here. I'd like to think I'm a decent player, but I'm almost certainly not among the best. I'm certainly not going to be contending for server or world firsts any time soon. And I'm not asking anyone to get to my level, or to get to the levels of BG or Lucrezia. I'm not even asking to meet in the middle, so to speak. I'm asking that maybe we teach people how a golfball rolls down hill, or how it bounces off the walls to let you get to a hole around a corner. Or maybe remove the bumpers from the bowling lanes.

What kept people from doing SoF before the nerfs, to continue the metaphor, is that some people are so excruciatingly bad at it that it's like they managed to gutter-ball even with the bumpers on. Which wouldn't be so bad (I mean, it's bad but it's kinda tolerable) if there were any actual rewards, especially if the rewards were commensurate with the time. Unfortunately, you have an instance with essentially no rewards and a high time requirement even if you succeed on the first try.

Now, if SE would actually implement stuff (like they started to with Chrysalis and SoF) to try to raise the lowest common denominator, people might actually get better. If people get better, we would expect to see fewer people throwing their bowling ball across three lanes. Which means that when you get an instance like SoF, you can reasonably expect success within the first try or two without also feeling like some of the party aren't pulling their weight at all. All SE has done here is allow people to play worse while still succeeding.

[Remus]

I don't mind the nerfs even though i believe it didn't need it...BUT i hope they dont adjust Heavensward content based on how people moaned about Steps of Faith. Thats when i will be really annoyed. If they leave it how it is then fine power to the people who enjoy tank and spank content.

[Tuathaa]

Wait until they re tune the fight for ilvl50 or give out ilvl100 gear as quest rewards and nerf it again to get new players into the expansion.
This is also story mode with no incentive to do it again not end game content

[dekal]

It is sad to see that SoF got to be nerf, but I do understand it. I don't like where the game is going. I don't believe that the trial was difficult, but the new players attitude that make is seen impossible to complete.

I recently have been leveling a new class and I have been encountering with new players. Most of them don't want to listen and cooperate with someone that is telling them what to do to success. This is the same behavior I saw in SoF. I did my SoF pre-nerf with players that knew that this is an mmo and not a single-player video game so everybody cooperate to finish it. We even helped a new player to finish her SoF on her first try.

[Azper]

Got it in my roulette yesterday. Had to stop myself from instinctively auto-abandoning and actually give it a try. Had 4 new people and we downed him on the first try. I feel like it still takes too long to be in Trial roulette though and should be moved to MSQ Roulette where it belongs.

[ZodiacSoldier]

I think it was a much needed nerf. Its a storyline dungeon, not end game content, its meant to be enjoyed not super challenging. The SoF was too unforgiving I think, if your make the smallest mistake you fail, which is too much to ask for a duty finder group.

[AlexionSkylark]

Actually, SoF FORCED people to cooperate. If they still refuse to do so, well, it's THEIR problem. They shouldn't have the content spoon-fed to them. Let them wipe till they learn how to properly behave in a MMO.

[Airget]

Actually, SoF FORCED people to cooperate. If they still refuse to do so, well, it's THEIR problem. They shouldn't have the content spoon-fed to them. Let them wipe till they learn how to properly behave in a MMO.

Have to consider other content though.

Gilgamesh, pretty straight forward, turn into a frog run away from chickens, go mini run away, see an AOE move away from it.

Ultros/Typhon, Target Ultros, when you turn into kappa(DD always) stand in front of Ultros and get stacks of water, avoid getting hit by AOE, when Typhon is about to sneeze attack his with Kappa ability to stop it, rinse repeat and stay on battlefield to win

Towers:Pull skeletons away, don't kill them next to each other, make sure 6 are all dead before killing boss, repeat 2 times and boss is dead (May wipe first time when skeletons runs towards boss and then you realize oh maybe they shouldn't die next to one another)

SoF:use cannons wait for barrier to break down, when first barrier breaks down run to second set of cannons, continue to hold adds and attack boss, when boss gets close enough use snares, when snares are used wait for call and use Dragon Killer, repeat 3 more times and if you miss once you might as well say GG. (also 0 reward for beating it so no incentive for trying it again or helping others.)

But see this is what you should keep in mind, the trial before it wasn't "nerfed" in any way if I recall and you know why? Because that instance is better coordinated than SoF. SoF is fun in the moment and it's exciting, they were able to nail the feel they were going for but it leaves a bad aftertaste in your mouth when you realize that they sort of through balance out the window when they did it.

For one, you die? Big deal just return and use the warp to get back right in the action. That makes people sloppy because death is now not a big deal, they can die and it's like welp I'll just run back not like it matters.

The duty before it, you fight boss, there are queues for his attacks, his first phase change and gimmick is easy to understand, two orbs, have to pick them up in A B order repeating and if you pick up two of same you take severe damage.

Then the chaotic part of stopping the meteorite from failing, reducing damage and preventing wiping by standing in circular areas while others attack the main target, destroy it and then just finish up the boss. Truth is the last trial is better balanced and more grand, it throws you into a situation but it's easier to read it then it is the last trial.

A thought that crossed my mind yesterday was they could of done it in an extremely different manner while having the Dragon Killer's act as an enfeeble and demoralize the minions with Vishap.

Rather than a random assortment of mobs appearing and having to use the cannon to destroy them, instead the task could be something like 12 dragons have taken to the sky, use the cannons to shoot them down, but be weary of how many you shoot down. You wouldn't need to be told that though because the dragons you would be up against would be the same as the ones found near the end of snowcloak that use that powerful AOE. Except in this fight they would use it in unison, so say you dropped 4-5 at once, odds are with them all doing it at the same time you would wipe, and you wouldn't be able to stun them.

The gimmick of course would be that the dragons in the sky would dead extra damage to the defenses/breaking down the barrier, Vishap would still be walking forwards and instead of random mobs spawning it would just focus on the dragons and trying to take them all out to reduce the damage dealt to the defenses.

The other addition could be that the fight isn't about killing all the dragons in the air but rather eliminating what's needed to weaken Vishap. They could of set it where at the start with 12 dragons Vishap would have high defense and high attack, when you defeat 3 his attack lowers, when you defeat 3 more his defense lowers, if you manage to defeat them all it would slow down Vishap. However the fight would just start with 12 dragons, when a defense breaks down more dragons would enter the fray, let's say 4 at each wall so a total of 12 more dragons woudl appear. If you just ignored the dragons then the following would happen. At 16 higher attack, at 20 higher defense, at 24 higher attacker speed.

So you wouldn't be able to just bumrush Vishap, unless you're prepared for 25% dmg potency dealt to the boss. It would be clear and concise to understand, the dragons around Vishap make him stronger, defeat them to weaken him, to make fight easier, use Dragon Killer to make things easier, if you miss just means you either kill more dragons or attack Vishap harder.

At least here you no longer have the idea of "Miss one Dragon Killer" and you might as well wait til it ends. You could remove the poorly executed "if you die it's ok just return and use teleporter to get back into the action" because now the duty is designed with a better balance and better cooperative action to it.

Cause this is what you have, Vishap starts walking, you see a cannon and use it, you realize it shoots in the sky but nothing happens, your thought is maybe it attacks Vishap if he flies into the air or something else. In this case something else. You see the comment "Dragons have taken to the sky, take them out with the cannons" so you fire the cannon, a dragon mob falls to the ground and starts to target the cannon, the tank pulls it off and the rest take it out. Repeat the process 3 more times and you get a comment that Vishap's att has lowered, you then realize that defeating these Dragons weakens Vishap and at the same time notice that the AOE attacks towards the defense are most likely caused by the aerial dragons.

But ya, that's just my two cents of how they could of kept the grand feel of the battle without sadly poorly executing the trial. Because you honestly can't deny that it wasn't or else they would of never put that comment that "When you fall in combat use return and the teleporter to return to the fight" It's the only Duty that's done that and it's because of how they didn't exactly take the time to properly balance it to make it a fun event where death could be prevented but rather a chaotic one.

[Odett]

The word "casual" keeps being thrown around. Casual does not equal bad. SoF was cool in the sense that you needed to actually communicate to get things done, so it was nice to have content outside of Coil that required you to do that. It's a very easy fight if you LISTEN, but not many people are willing to do that, sadly. I was hoping (and still hope) that the difficulty (for lack of a better term, because the fight is not difficult if you listen) would be foreshadowing for Heavensward. You don't want to listen or cooperate? Maybe you shouldn't be playing an MMO in the first place. I'm tired of content being nerfed because people QQ about not being able to faceroll fights.