Take it easy on the Nerfing :/

[Hyrist]

So what your saying is that we should just let any joe shmoe in

What I'm saying is, is that the 'Joe Shmoes' keeps this game running more than you do. And it's an idiot move to try to lock them out of content to force them to 'get gud'. FFXIV is one of the last surviving P2P games in the MMO market, and it's being successful in that in part because it recognizes the necessity of its casual base.

It's also, in part, the reason why we're getting two separate difficulties of Alexander from the start.

I think SoF is more akin to a competency check rather than the above.

If there's to be a competency check in this game, it should be on the gateway to Endgame, NOT in the middle of the story Route that gates the entirety of an Expansion. That's poor placement in so many ways it isn't funny. Again, even if it's so easy that 60% of the current base can do it with ease, that's an instant 40% loss on your heavenward purchases/subscriptions.

The playerbase perspective on required skill is absolutely irrelevant when in face of a clear and present danger to the continued health and development of the game itself. SoF should be tuned BELOW the lowest common denominator. We have an entire expansion to get players adjusted to old and new mechanics going forward. There is no net benefit to gating people out of an entire expansion on the side of the development and business end. And suffocating your own potential good endgame player base because that player's casual friends can't get past DF of SoF is equally problematic.

[AdamFyi]

And it's an idiot move to try to lock them out of content to force them to 'get gud'.

Wat. The whole point of this trial in particular is to force players to communicate with each other. There isn't much skill involved either so they can't 'get gud' even if they tried. ಠ_ಠ

If there's to be a competency check in this game, it should be on the gateway to Endgame, NOT in the middle of the story Route that gates the entirety of an Expansion.

Well, that's fine and all, but you do have to consider one thing; future content. You have to also consider the fact that since the inclusion of dungeons such as Snowcloak and Keeper of the Lake, there is a good chance that dungeons will be added to the 3.0 MSQ. Chances are, these dungeons will be harder than anything before it. If anything, this serves as a gate so as to not present another gate behind the gate to gate the player by giving them more gates behind that gate.

Edit: Note, this is referring to the whole competency check thing. Communication and all that stuff. Trials like the SoF is a nice change of pace because it gives the developers room to experiment and get input from the players. Easing the fights (as long as they are story-related) is a-ok and is very much welcome to allow more accessibility to everyone.

[Kallera]

Wat. Snip.

It is assumed that people entering savage content know what they are getting into, so no, any nerf arguments will not treated the same(normal mode is still a thing though, and we'll see what they mean by it being easier). Say what you will, story was a major reason for people(myself included) asking for adjustments, another was FCS and Lses being unable to assist the odd person out of a static. Besides, said savage armor won't be required for future content, so it fits Savage content to a T. 'If you do this, it is purely for glory.'

[AdamFyi]

Snip

I'm taking about the Alexander raids though. Unless you are referring to the one above it; to which I say, "Communication". Even with the adjustments to the trial, you still won't get anywhere without communication. That aside, if you were referring to the part I removed; it's just a given. There are players who are in it for the loot. Some people just really like the shinies.

It's true this fight is a battle that involves having to communicate though, and people who ignore advice and instructions can and WILL make this battle harder than it needs to be. I've been in those groups before, and they make me grit my teeth sometimes. However, as I already said earlier, I also hate the other side, the people who won't even take the time to help other people because they only think of themselves.

I think you can consider both of them as elitist since the definition is broad and can go both ways. Nonetheless, just because someone decides to not help others does not necessarily make them a bad person. I sometimes help out when asked; but not necessarily all the time, and I know some players also share the same thoughts. Of course, those who look down on others can go straight into the abyss for all I care; doesn't matter if they're casual, midcore or hardcore.

[Kallera]

I'm taking about the Alexander raids though. Unless you are referring to the one above it; to which I say, "Communication". Even with the adjustments to the trial, you still won't get anywhere without communication. That aside, if you were referring to the part I removed; it's just a given. There are players who are in it for the loot. Some people just really like the shinies.

I guess I should have mention the part of you comment I was referring to on nerf arguments on the forums eventually happening, which was Alex Savage, not SOF. Savage content and main scenario content are two different things. Nerf argument to savage content are different because savage content is an extra mode to an existing content, it is designed to be harder, and optional.

[AdamFyi]

I guess I should have mention the part of you comment I was referring to on nerf arguments on the forums eventually happening, which was Alex Savage, not SOF. Savage content and main scenario content are two different things. Nerf argument to savage content are different because savage content is an extra mode to an existing content.

Ah, I see. That point was completely off-topic and was meant to address specifically on the Alexander raids; which is why I removed it. It wasn't in any way related to the Steps of Faith or the MSQ at all. I believe it was merely just an observation on my part that something akin to what I had stated would likely occur. Like I said, some people just really like the shinies. xD

[Hyrist]

Well, that's fine and all, but you do have to consider one thing; future content.

That's a bold assumption. No, if anything, I would speculate that we hit the cap of what we would see with casual dungeon difficulty with the last three instances we have had. All that forcing heavy communication in casual dungeons does is reduce your playerbase as the pacing of this game is tuned too fast for true co-ordination to be instilled on the casual level.

Instead, I will speculate right now -expect the game to tilt MORE casual with Heavensward. Alexander Normal is the practice mode for Hard, and is released BEFORE hard mode is. That's a direct opposite of what we had with Coil. I expect Alexander Hard to maintain a challenging difficulty.

While I expect new and interesting things to come of the dungeons we are released, I don't expect the competency requirement to pass these dungeons will escalate further than what we already have.

It'll likely be the classes themselves that grow in complexity, with new skills to be added.

[AdamFyi]

Instead, I will speculate right now -expect the game to tilt MORE casual with Heavensward.

That goes for you too. Bold assumption there. Then again, we don't know much considering that there isn't much official info to go on. All we can do now is pretty much speculate for future content. Regardless, this is an MMO and there isn't much anyone can change about it. Communication is pretty much a big deal and can be tied to competency checks. Namely, being able to communicate with your party members on who does what and what does who. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hopefully they can include content for everyone; Casual, Midcore, and Hardcore players.

[Hyrist]

That goes for you too. Bold assumption there. Then again, we don't know much considering that there isn't much official info to go on. All we can do now is pretty much speculate for future content. Regardless, this is an MMO and there isn't much anyone can change about it. Communication is pretty much a big deal and can be tied to competency checks. Namely, being able to communicate with your party members on who does what and what does who. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Hopefully they can include content for everyone; Casual, Midcore, and Hardcore players.

Agreed. As far as my taking bold statements - I have a pretty strong track record of being accurate with my statements. Mainly cause I've been following them since NA release of FFXI. I take no shame in admitting when I'm wrong. It just seems that I have a good feel for these things. (For better or worse, I've made calls I didn't want to happen, that came true too x.x)

But yeah, character complexity up, endgame appeals down to more casual players (probably wider diversity and easier time getting settled in.) It won't mean that the 'hardmode' difficult events will be easier, mind you, but that the overall feel will seem more accessible past the point of heavenward.

We can potentially use the level 30 start on new Jobs, the 'below ilvl130' start on level 51+ gear, the delayed release of Alexander as well as the first release of storymode Alexander BEFORE the hard difficulty, as all indications of continuing the trend of 'ease of admission'.

That's what makes SoF and storyline gating such a staggering point - it's in stark contrast to all listed points moving forward.

[FrejyaAthenes]

If there's to be a competency check in this game, it should be on the gateway to Endgame, NOT in the middle of the story Route that gates the entirety of an Expansion. That's poor placement in so many ways it isn't funny. Again, even if it's so easy that 60% of the current base can do it with ease, that's an instant 40% loss on your heavenward purchases/subscriptions.

Wouldn't that be the perfect place for a competence check? It's like saying, "Hey, this is what it's gonna be like beyond this point so you better be able to handle it." Least that's how I saw it.