Take it easy on the Nerfing :/

[AdamFyi]

Snip

I think SoF is more akin to a competency check rather than the above. There isn't much of a DPS check because most of the damage you'll be doing is tied to the mechanics. The healing is a little lax unless you're going for solo tanking. In which case, yeah, a buttload of healing is needed (which isn't intended). Tanks just grab hate on everything. The main killer from what I've experienced is Vishap's foot. Pancake adventurers, ahoy!

The nerfs are very much welcome so as to ease up the fight a little, but it isn't comparable to say the Coils because the amount of work you need to put into that is totally different. For the Coils, you're going to need skill, communication, awareness, and determination. Steps of Faith just needs communication and a bit of luck getting other players who will communicate. I'm probably missing something in those two lists, but you get the gist of it. xD

[Airget]

This. I one-shot it in DF for the first time before the nerfs yesterday because my group actually took the time to work out who was going to do what. We had all of that organized and agreed on before we even started the fight... and, unsurprisingly, we cleared it with ease because people knew what they were supposed to be doing.

There lies in the problem though, for a Duty for first timers you are kinda just thrown in and it's like GL you are going to fail. In that sense it's SE's fault that they didn't create an instance before it to explain the battle strategy which they could of done.

Quick Example.

"Ok we still have time before the attack I will give you a rundown of what will be needed when they attack"

-Go to cannon-

"Ok now I will let lose these monsters, take them out with a swift cannon strike"

-Use Cannon to eliminate enemies-

"Good, now this one is tricky he will use an AOE that will destroy the cannon, quickly stun him before he gets it off!"

-Use Cannon ability to stun target-

"Great, now make your way to the tower a soldier will be waiting to tell you what to do next"

-Go to Soldier-

"Great, we sincerely appreciate your help, now what you see next to me is a "Dragon Killer", when the order is given strike down Vishap with it. Since these aren't cheap instead of firing a practice shot I will throw a firework to simulate a fired cannon"

-When the call is given tell guard to fire cannon-

"Direct Hit! With adventurers as dependable as you we'll have nothing to fear from Vishap's attack! Now lastly you must be made aware that Vishap is no fool, he will keep an eye once he's been hit by the cannon, that's why on the next path we've set up two snares to hold him down so that we'll be able to land two more devestating blows on him."

-Go to Snare-

"Alright now adventurer when the target is in place you and a fellow comrade will release a snare to hold the target in place, upon snaring the target for practice sake you will then make your way to the Dragon Killer to make another shot"

-Wait for target to fall into position and use the snare-

"Great now with haste make you way up the tower!"

-Talk to soldier at second tower-

"Ok you know what to do, when the word is given tell me to fire the cannon" -snared person comments- "Um do you really have to throw a firework at me?" "Of course it's incentive to try and break out of the snare before the "cannon" hit's you"

-Fire cannon when order is given-

"OUCH" "Great Direct hit now with all your knowledge we'll have no fears of the dragon forces breaking through all our barriers. Remember adventurer these are not task which you will have to handle by yourself but as a team. Work together and nothing will break our defenses!"

-Instance Ends-

[AdamFyi]

In that sense it's SE's fault that they didn't create an instance before it to explain the battle strategy which they could of done.

But lore..! The dragons are attacking now. Not later. Now.

That aside, the Steps of Faith is pretty similar to the instanced fights for the classes and jobs, as well as some story battle instances. The NPCs directly tell you what to do through text; similar to what we see in the fight. There isn't much of an excuse since you've already experienced this kind of situation multiple times before.

[Hyrist]

So what your saying is that we should just let any joe shmoe in

What I'm saying is, is that the 'Joe Shmoes' keeps this game running more than you do. And it's an idiot move to try to lock them out of content to force them to 'get gud'. FFXIV is one of the last surviving P2P games in the MMO market, and it's being successful in that in part because it recognizes the necessity of its casual base.

It's also, in part, the reason why we're getting two separate difficulties of Alexander from the start.

I think SoF is more akin to a competency check rather than the above.

If there's to be a competency check in this game, it should be on the gateway to Endgame, NOT in the middle of the story Route that gates the entirety of an Expansion. That's poor placement in so many ways it isn't funny. Again, even if it's so easy that 60% of the current base can do it with ease, that's an instant 40% loss on your heavenward purchases/subscriptions.

The playerbase perspective on required skill is absolutely irrelevant when in face of a clear and present danger to the continued health and development of the game itself. SoF should be tuned BELOW the lowest common denominator. We have an entire expansion to get players adjusted to old and new mechanics going forward. There is no net benefit to gating people out of an entire expansion on the side of the development and business end. And suffocating your own potential good endgame player base because that player's casual friends can't get past DF of SoF is equally problematic.

[AdamFyi]

And it's an idiot move to try to lock them out of content to force them to 'get gud'.

Wat. The whole point of this trial in particular is to force players to communicate with each other. There isn't much skill involved either so they can't 'get gud' even if they tried. ಠ_ಠ

If there's to be a competency check in this game, it should be on the gateway to Endgame, NOT in the middle of the story Route that gates the entirety of an Expansion.

Well, that's fine and all, but you do have to consider one thing; future content. You have to also consider the fact that since the inclusion of dungeons such as Snowcloak and Keeper of the Lake, there is a good chance that dungeons will be added to the 3.0 MSQ. Chances are, these dungeons will be harder than anything before it. If anything, this serves as a gate so as to not present another gate behind the gate to gate the player by giving them more gates behind that gate.

Edit: Note, this is referring to the whole competency check thing. Communication and all that stuff. Trials like the SoF is a nice change of pace because it gives the developers room to experiment and get input from the players. Easing the fights (as long as they are story-related) is a-ok and is very much welcome to allow more accessibility to everyone.

[Rendecrow]

Story content is meant for everyone. Nerfs to the story content so that everyone can pass it is fine. Nerfs to non-story content that is meant to be harder is a different story though...

[Kallera]

Wat. Snip.

It is assumed that people entering savage content know what they are getting into, so no, any nerf arguments will not treated the same(normal mode is still a thing though, and we'll see what they mean by it being easier). Say what you will, story was a major reason for people(myself included) asking for adjustments, another was FCS and Lses being unable to assist the odd person out of a static. Besides, said savage armor won't be required for future content, so it fits Savage content to a T. 'If you do this, it is purely for glory.'

[TruebladeNuke]

I cleared this trial before it's nerf and thought it wasn't THAT hard myself, but... given the fact that people who had already done this trial kept insta-abandoning it like it was the plague, making it so that other players could never clear this trial because they could never keep a full party, what on earth did you people expect? SE had to do something to make this trial more accessible. Now, I've had my share of players who ignore advice and take insult to me trying to help them, and I find them slightly annoying too, but they're paying for this game too. And money in SE's pockets is money in SE's pockets, which from a business stand point, is a good thing. (Or are you people telling me you don't want SE to make the profits they need to expand this game by "locking out the incompetent players"?) And since Steps of Faith is part of the main story content that acts more as a roadblock than an accomplishment to the expansion pack, of course SE is going to prioritize making it so that MOST people can clear this trial. If you want hardcore content, that's what the new upcoming Alexander HM will be about. (And the Coils of Bahamut and the EX primals, to a lesser extent)

Now honestly, when it comes to this argument over Steps of Faith and other content when it comes to challenge, I actually happen to hate the extremists on both ends of the table honestly. There are devils on both ends of this argument here. The people who are, sadly, bad (I hate using that word) are known to ignore advice and all that. But on the other end, we've also got the macho elitist people who tend to only think of themselves and refuse to help anyone else who "isn't up to their level.", and can never be bothered to actually try and teach newcomers. (I actually hate those "I won't teach you this fight!" pricks WAY more than the newbies who are trying to learn and make a lot of mistakes) Hence all the insta-abandoning in Steps of Faith, and thus players, both old ones that already cleared it with their primary character and now trying to clear it with alts, and new ones can never freaking clear this trial. It's a never ending cycle with ever annoying un-needed arguing on both ends that makes me, one of the players who prefers the middle road between the two ends, grit my teeth in frustration at both ends. (And close to giving the middle finger to both ends at that)

It's true this fight is a battle that involves having to communicate though, and people who ignore advice and instructions can and WILL make this battle harder than it needs to be. I've been in those groups before, and they make me grit my teeth sometimes. However, as I already said earlier, I also hate the other side, the people who won't even take the time to help other people because they only think of themselves. (Again, the constant insta-abandoning upon setting foot into Steps of Faith) Seriously, the amount of hypocrisy flying around this forum... No wonder I keep running out of popcorn to eat when reading the threads in this place.

Honestly, the only thing I'm disappointed in with this patch update is that SE didn't add some kind of loot reward at the end of the trial battle, so as to easily entice those obsessive collectors of everything in the game to actually go through with the trial battle. That would have gotten a fair number of players to spam the Steps of Faith trial battle, all for a damn minion pet or something like that.

tl;dr: I hate both ends of the table here of all the people arguing. Just another TV trope example of people always being an unpleasable fanbase.

[FrejyaAthenes]

If there's to be a competency check in this game, it should be on the gateway to Endgame, NOT in the middle of the story Route that gates the entirety of an Expansion. That's poor placement in so many ways it isn't funny. Again, even if it's so easy that 60% of the current base can do it with ease, that's an instant 40% loss on your heavenward purchases/subscriptions.

Wouldn't that be the perfect place for a competence check? It's like saying, "Hey, this is what it's gonna be like beyond this point so you better be able to handle it." Least that's how I saw it.

[AdamFyi]

Snip

I'm taking about the Alexander raids though. Unless you are referring to the one above it; to which I say, "Communication". Even with the adjustments to the trial, you still won't get anywhere without communication. That aside, if you were referring to the part I removed; it's just a given. There are players who are in it for the loot. Some people just really like the shinies.

It's true this fight is a battle that involves having to communicate though, and people who ignore advice and instructions can and WILL make this battle harder than it needs to be. I've been in those groups before, and they make me grit my teeth sometimes. However, as I already said earlier, I also hate the other side, the people who won't even take the time to help other people because they only think of themselves.

I think you can consider both of them as elitist since the definition is broad and can go both ways. Nonetheless, just because someone decides to not help others does not necessarily make them a bad person. I sometimes help out when asked; but not necessarily all the time, and I know some players also share the same thoughts. Of course, those who look down on others can go straight into the abyss for all I care; doesn't matter if they're casual, midcore or hardcore.