DEV REQUEST:DUEL/SPAR system

[Nalien]

I'm sure they were planning PVP, but let me tell you something...if it's not in the game at launch then it is not a high priority for the dev team. Housing wasn't there either, and look at the complaints there.

Complaints which are unjustified? I'd say they're pretty justified regardless of how low they might be on the developers priority list, although I find your notion of "Not in launch = not a priority" to be utterly absurd. For a single player game, sure. For a MMO which is going to receive updates for years to come? No. Not even close. Content that wasn't in at launch wasn't a priority for launch. Wolves Den was a priority for 2.1, Frontlines was a priority for 2.3. Slaughter was a priority for whatever update that was, and whatever the new mode is called is a priority for 3.0. The fact that PvP, like Housing, has its own team to work on it alongside other content means it is a continuing priority.

It's point capture, and you're given so many tools that are different from normal gameplay it's almost like driving a tank or car when you normally walk. I really don't understand what they mean by "traditional PVP" but let's take a look at that shall we?

Frontlines isn't the only PvP in this game, you know... I really do dread to think how the common player is going to react to 3.0 if the handful of PvP skills confuse them, none of the PvP ones are even used in combos and their effects are very clear (this removes debuffs, this heals you, this is defensive) but that is an entirely different debate... Still, if the new PvP skills are like driving a tank to some players... That is a new low for this games playerbase...

To make duels, they would have to have the ability to summon up those skills in the open world, OR forego them entirely. This requires time and effort, and testing. What happens if a player uses Repelling Shot in Limsa Lominsa? What happens if they use that skill on top of the building with the tome merchants in mor dhona?

Or they could just limit where we can Duel, like has been suggested numerous times, along side just throwing it in the Wolves Den instance; Making a 1v1 mode for that wouldn't be a massive undertaking in the slightest. Can already use the PvP skills at Wolves Den Pier anyway, why not just add a bit more to that map (again, they're making an entire new map for Frontlines so it's not like they couldn't have) and make that the designated Duel area? A Duel area doesn't even need to be significantly complex, it would be a very easy area to design compared to what we've seen of the new Frontlines map (which looks great even if I have my doubts about the mode itself).

If it's more popular, they develop for it. Plain and simple. And the queues are STILL an hour long. Why devote resources to something that is just going to be complained about and no one will actually do?
1v1 PVP is kinda like that. The game is NOT balanced for 1v1 pvp. And it probably never will be.

The issue isn't about popularity. It's about access. Go back a few posts and read my ridiculous rant, the issue with PvP is that people cannot get into it due to the queues, which in turn makes the queues worse, which in turn is not helped by splitting players across multiple different queues (Wolves Den, Secure, Slaughter, etc.). By not addressing this simple issue they are effectively damning every piece of PvP content they release. Wolves Den was popular, then that little negative feedback loop kicked in and it became very time consuming just to get in. The exact same thing happened to Secure, and Slaughter. There are other issues, sure, but this is the main one.

[Chiramu]

This is a very good idea and gives a PVP environment for PVPers where they cannot ruin the game for people who do not want to PVP . They could also expand on the idea and include a larger amount of people for the duelling environment.

[bbrooks189]

Please allow duels. Sitting in queue is so boring it will give people something to do. Allow auto decline and dont balance around it sure, but it would jsut be a great way to fill time/improve

[Apoptic]

There are some very odd people who play this game, and insist that things that are pretty much universal to MMO's have no place in FF. The fact that a duel system does not even exist shocked me when I first started playing the game, and its continued absence is just weird. PVP in general in this game lacks depth and there should be more of it. One BG is simply not enough.

And to all the people who complain that duels would be "noisy", are you kidding me?

This game is great but to insist that there is not room for improvement is ignorant. The chat system in this game for instance; why in 2015 is shout the accepted form of zone chat? Primitive design.

Sorry if this post was too "noisy" lol.

[Nalien]

This is a very good idea and gives a PVP environment for PVPers where they cannot ruin the game for people who do not want to PVP . They could also expand on the idea and include a larger amount of people for the duelling environment.

I'm toying with the idea that they could just take the Wolves Den zone used in the instanced 4v4 fights and just make that an open world zone. No new assets required, the place is already tested for PvP, it would be very simple to implement. Either a free-for-all zone or a "Duels are allowed here" zone. Wouldn't quite be as good as having regular, and frequent, scheduled PvP events at improving queue times, but I imagine it would help. People go there for some quick PvP satisfaction, a large group forms there and they decide to queue, effectively adding a large amount of people to the queue in one go to speed up the queues. Alternatively people can just go there to pass the time while waiting.

Either way, PvPers would be able to actively PvP, rather than waiting upwards of 30 minutes to PvP for 5.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Please allow duels. Sitting in queue is so boring it will give people something to do. Allow auto decline and dont balance around it sure, but it would jsut be a great way to fill time/improve

Yep, and then we can have even more people complain that the queue system is too short while they're dueling, just like how crafters kept complaining about it when doing delicate crafting and TT players also complaining about the same thing

[bbrooks189]

Yep, and then we can have even more people complain that the queue system is too short

Yes because that is a big problem in game

[Nalien]

Yes because that is a big problem in game

One they're apparently looking to fix, too;

Greetings,

We are looking into improving the Duty Finder as we move forward and we're checking whether or not we can provide measures for when players are matched while being engaged in content (for example, Triple Triad matches, during cutscenes, while crafting, etc.). Hang tight a bit longer and if we should receive more information, we'll be sure to pass it along.

[kyuven]

Frontlines isn't the only PvP in this game, you know... I really do dread to think how the common player is going to react to 3.0 if the handful of PvP skills confuse them, none of the PvP ones are even used in combos and their effects are very clear (this removes debuffs, this heals you, this is defensive) but that is an entirely different debate... Still, if the new PvP skills are like driving a tank to some players... That is a new low for this games playerbase...

The PVP skills are different enough that you need to relearn your class.This takes time and effort that many players don't want to go through because they just spent 50 levels doing that. Moreover they're not given any situation where they can just practice.

Or they could just limit where we can Duel, like has been suggested numerous times, along side just throwing it in the Wolves Den instance; Making a 1v1 mode for that wouldn't be a massive undertaking in the slightest. Can already use the PvP skills at Wolves Den Pier anyway, why not just add a bit more to that map (again, they're making an entire new map for Frontlines so it's not like they couldn't have) and make that the designated Duel area? A Duel area doesn't even need to be significantly complex, it would be a very easy area to design compared to what we've seen of the new Frontlines map (which looks great even if I have my doubts about the mode itself).

Again you're missing the point, for the same point, twice in a row. The OP wants OPEN PVP DUELS
While yes, restricting where on the maps they could take place could be a thing, I get the sense that's not what the OP wants. Moreover, you would need to set up a separate system for assigning the duels, to ensure it's not just an open PVP arena. With that amount of work, yes adding it to the Wolves Den would be the easiest and AGAIN I agree with this, it wouldn't be a terrible idea to add it to the Wolves Den. Aside from the complete lack of balance between the classes.

The issue isn't about popularity. It's about access. Go back a few posts and read my ridiculous rant, the issue with PvP is that people cannot get into it due to the queues, which in turn makes the queues worse, which in turn is not helped by splitting players across multiple different queues (Wolves Den, Secure, Slaughter, etc.). By not addressing this simple issue they are effectively damning every piece of PvP content they release. Wolves Den was popular, then that little negative feedback loop kicked in and it became very time consuming just to get in. The exact same thing happened to Secure, and Slaughter. There are other issues, sure, but this is the main one.

Um, yes, it IS about popularity. People don't queue for PVP because it's unpopular and the queues are long.
If your access to something is based around people wanting to do it, and no one wants to do it, you're not going to be able to access it. And all the pretty little changes in the world aren't going to affect it one way or another.
This isn't a PVP game, therefore PVP queues will always be long. The only possible exception WOULD be duels, but those would be so skewed towards certain classes you'd run into ANOTHER problem.

And to all the people who complain that duels would be "noisy", are you kidding me?

Nope, not at all.

When you duel the two fighters are only able to target each other within the dueling space- in dCUO if player leaves the dueling space ..the duel ends and the other person wins. Players can watch but won't get hit in the cross fire. What they could do is only able duel in open zones where we combat npc not like uldah central- u know the places we can cant use a mount.

would it be cool to even have 2v2 - player+ chocobo battles.

I want final fantasy to be the best b/c i think its the best..the music alone is amazing!

OK, once again. People are annoyed when actions take place near them when they're rather NOT have those actions take place.
Chat spam? You can ignore via blacklist, big deal move one.
BATTLE spam? You have to manually adjust settings, and no one should have to manually adjust settings just because two guys want to pretend to duke it out just to be annoying in a populated area.
This is a legitimate issue, just as legitimate as the lack of "PVP awareness"
Many people, ESPECIALLY in games like this, don't want to be disturbed in certain areas.

One of you cites the music. How can you hear the music when players are spamming attacks right next to you?
Why do they get to be allowed to do this, rather than just getting 1v1 in Wolves' Den?

Does anybody have a real reason to not introduce dueling to the game? A reason that's not as comical as the problem of balancing 1v1 combat, which almost no MMORPG has successfully done, or the fear of confrontation?

No problems with 1v1...just not OPEN 1v1.
1v1 Wolves Den: Good idea
1v1 /duel in the open world: Bad idea

Oh, and as someone pointed out to me: Lag is a thing. Another reason to not allow them in the open world.

[kpxmanifesto]

Does anybody have a real reason to not introduce dueling to the game? A reason that's not as comical as the problem of balancing 1v1 combat, which almost no MMORPG has successfully done, or the fear of confrontation?