summoner dps how to do it

[Havenchild]

You mean Crimson Cyclone lol. Also another question, how did you come up with 520 Crit minimum? My current build is the same as yours except the crafted items, and I am working on Zeta. I have a perfect meld Apocalypse. Therefore my stats are 652 Int 371 Det 495 Crit. I was thinking of swapping the Dread Bracelet for the Poetics and gamble with the 1 lower Acc by positioning my pet at flank (T13 problem only). The alternative is swapping Poetics neck for Dread but I shudder at the overload of Accuracy and all those wasted stats.

Even though my Critical Hit is considered low by what you have stated, I parsed considerably higher than my original build.

Ultimately, it's not backed by any particular science but what I noticed from looking at parses.

I have a theory on Critical Hit Rate in general and I don't think the formula for it is entirely linear.

What never made sense to me was how Critical Hit Rate and the Formula literally related. When you think about it, when you are leveling up, you have all these stats and can Crit regardless but its only at 512 Crit Rate that you are finally considered at least according to the formula to be hitting 10% Crit Rate. That doesn't line up with the fact though that you can Crit as often with considerably lower then 512 Crit when you are leveling.

Now at the same time at level 50, past 540 Critical, I noticed I wasn't actually Critting considerably more at 545+ then when I was at 540. I started trying it at different increments from the 512 -> 545 and noticed over particular numbers, you begin to reflect accurately, via parser, a jump when you cross over particular numbers.

When you think about it in relation to other classes, classes like MNK crit considerably more even outside of IR, when leveling up, despite the fact we should be at similar numbers.

This all lead me to my current theory that at least on SMN, you fall into particular thresholds of Crit. When you cross over a certain number, this pushes you into a new threshold where you will reliably Crit as often. 512 is when you cross over the particular shift, but for me, when I crossed 520, I felt the jump based off Festers and Ruins critting more often. At 530, I again saw another notable jump and finally at 540. but after 545, nothing seems to change. Just to make sure about post 545, I had to parser that and noticed it was in fact true. So the diminishing returns start at around 545.

So anyway that's why I recommend 520. I tried to prove my theory with a friend of mine equally skilled as me and he feels as long as you can get DET to cover the Crit, you can equally still do similar damage. He wasn't able to parse higher but to some extent I believe his theory is also true because he was able to keep up, perhaps 10 DPS off after like 3 mins but he can't get higher DET then me atm lol

PS: Puros calc also seems to support the fact that a notable drop in Crit can theoretically harm you more often. Using theoretical gains from Crit of course.

[pandabearcat]

That doesn't seem like a very good way to do crit.

It seems more anecdotal.

It may however be possible that enemies have a crit threshold per level, so for example if you have 500 crit and their crit suppression is 450 crit, then you only get 50 crit worth of points, while if you had 520 you have 70 crit worth of points, an effective 40% crit increase even though you only have a 4% actual crit rating increase.

Therefore the value of crit jumps up past a threshold then falls back down (relatively).

[Havenchild]

That doesn't seem like a very good way to do crit.

It seems more anecdotal.

It may however be possible that enemies have a crit threshold per level, so for example if you have 500 crit and their crit suppression is 450 crit, then you only get 50 crit worth of points, while if you had 520 you have 70 crit worth of points, an effective 40% crit increase even though you only have a 4% actual crit rating increase.

Therefore the value of crit jumps up past a threshold then falls back down (relatively).

Like I said it's not balanced by any particular science. I only go off what I feel has been the most effective in game from what I've also seen on parse. If we were to go purely by the formulas suggested then I would be completely wrong on that. However, I don't base my stat build purely on what the formulas state, but what's actually working in-game. If we listened to purely formulas, then by all accounts INT will always beat DET in almost any given ratio, which I find especially on Summoner to be hardly true.

At the end of it all, it's meant to be just that a Recommendation.

PS: Incidently, alot of my findings from what I see in game coincide with what Japanese players theorize regarding the damage formulas and how each stats value is not exactly static.

https://dervyxiv.wordpress.com/2015/...mage-formulas/

This is a pretty good read of the differences between the NA / JP scenes.

[pandabearcat]

I didn't mean that your intuition was incorrect or that it is bad advice, I just wish the stats were more lucid.

It certainly doesn't help gearing any.

[Judge_Xero]

What never made sense to me was how Critical Hit Rate and the Formula literally related. When you think about it, when you are leveling up, you have all these stats and can Crit regardless but its only at 512 Crit Rate that you are finally considered at least according to the formula to be hitting 10% Crit Rate. That doesn't line up with the fact though that you can Crit as often with considerably lower then 512 Crit when you are leveling.

Isn't this just because your base crit and %/Crit Rate is higher at lower levels?

Like for any given level, with no gear equipped you are sitting @ 5% Crit Rate and each point of Crit would give you a higher % than it would at level 50. Similar to Skill/Spell Speed, you are always @ 2.5GCD and each point of that lowers your GCD more than it does at 50.

So @ Lvl 60 cap - the 14 Crit may not be 1% anymore. It might be closer to 15.5 Crit Rate = 1%. Also our minimum Crit Rate will be higher (currently 341 @ 50), but our base % will probably still be 5%.

[Havenchild]

Isn't this just because your base crit and %/Crit Rate is higher at lower levels? Like for any given level, with no gear equipped you are sitting @ 5% Crit Rate and each point of Crit would give you a higher % than it would at level 50. Similar to Skill/Spell Speed, you are always @ 2.5GCD and each point of that lowers your GCD more than it does at 50.

So @ Lvl 60 cap - the 28 Crit may not be 1% anymore. It might be closer to 36 = 1%, but we will also get more Crit from gear and our base crit will be higher, but still probably only the 5% floor.

iirc your base crit at level 1 is 1% while at level 50 is 5%. So it's not higher from the base viewpoint. I'm not sure if anyone particularly looked into how crit rate is adjusted based off your level when we talk about what additions of crit start changing the actual percent. It was just brought up that the base crit adjusts each level up but remains in that 1 - > 5% range. I would be curious to see if the value of a single point of crit outside of the base crit adjusts per level. EX: Crit coming from gear. If that was true, then it would explain the discrepancy I noticed.

I didn't mean that your intuition was incorrect or that it is bad advice, I just wish the stats were more lucid.

It certainly doesn't help gearing any.

Seems to be a new thing popping up every few months that changes the foundations of what you've known up til then.

[Judge_Xero]

iirc your base crit at level 1 is 1% while at level 50 is 5%. So it's not higher from the base viewpoint. I'm not sure if anyone particularly looked into how crit rate is adjusted based off your level when we talk about what additions of crit start changing the actual percent. It was just brought up that the base crit adjusts each level up but remains in that 1 - > 5% range. I would be curious to see if the value of a single point of crit outside of the base crit adjusts per level. EX: Crit coming from gear. If that was true, then it would explain the discrepancy I noticed.

I've been letting a brand new level 1 character whack away on a level 1 training dummy for the last 40 minutes. Currently sitting at a 5% crit rate at around 1500 hits.

I might buy some food for it and see how much % I get over the 30 mins of food.

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Edited: well with the Dodo Omlette I got 4 Crit. Over 484 Hits I ended up at 6% Crit. I guess the game crashed so it didn't get a great amount of hits as I would have liked, but 4 Points of Crit getting anywhere near an extra 1% might indicate that a point of crit is stronger at lower levels, than at higher levels.

Also I can't remember how to get the reading past 1 decimal point, because those are rounded up values.

[Havenchild]

I've been letting a brand new level 1 character whack away on a level 1 training dummy for the last 40 minutes. Currently sitting at a 5% crit rate at around 1500 hits.

I might buy some food for it and see how much % I get over the 30 mins of food.

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Edited: well with the Dodo Omlette I got 4 Crit. Over 484 Hits I ended up at 6% Crit. I guess the game crashed so it didn't get a great amount of hits as I would have liked.

Also I can't remember how to get the reading past 1 decimal point, because those are rounded up values.

So after beating on a dummy for an hr, both at level 1 and level 50, yes you are correct it's seemingly locked at 5% across the board.

[Judge_Xero]

So after beating on a dummy for an hr, both at level 1 and level 50, yes you are correct it's seemingly locked at 5% across the board.

I can imagine it is that way so that the secondary stats aren't completely useless at low levels, and so there isn't a huge power creep with the secondary stats later on.

@ 14 Crit/1% @ level 50 - Estimating the gear stats at Level 60 ilvl 220, I estimate you would see a 70% increase in secondary stats from what we have now. So if you had +279 Crit now @ 20% Crit Chance - you would have a staggering 34% Crit Chance @ i220 (+474 Crit)

If the Ratio changes to even 16 Crit/1% (@lvl60) that brings it down to 29%.

It also makes me wonder if Player Level is a variable in the damage algorithm.

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I guess with the crit value that you currently use, it's just at a sweet spot where you hit enough crits with your big bang spells (fester, Enkindle etc) that overall you just do better. Either that, or it's a nice balance with SMN's actions per second.

[melflomil]

On my SCH i have 644 Crit. i can put on average about 150 DPS. For those times my Crit fluctuate between 33% and 27%