Why I Decided to Become an Elitist

[Coris]

@Davester:
What other options did/do I have then? I went with one friend - more were either busy or offline. I had a PF up before too and what I think of guides is what I've said above.
I think DF is meant to be used to go in a fight if you can't get a (full) group beforehand. I want to learn that fight but with people leaving fast or not joining at all that's not an easy thing to do.

I like that "wasting other people's time" thing. Imho there are people out there who would consider playing games/MMOs as a waste of time...

By the way, I also think it is a matter of wording too. I accept it when others don't want to play with first timers through DF, but getting nasty about it? Please no.

[Purrfectstorm]

@Davester:
What other options did/do I have then? I went with one friend - more were either busy or offline. I had a PF up before too and what I think of guides is what I've said above.
I think DF is meant to be used to go in a fight if you can't get a (full) group beforehand. I want to learn that fight but with people leaving fast or not joining at all that's not an easy thing to do.

I like that "wasting other people's time" thing. Imho there are people out there who would consider playing games/MMOs as a waste of time...

By the way, I also think it is a matter of wording too. I accept it when others don't want to play with first timers through DF, but getting nasty about it? Please no.

It might help to think about it another way. Instead of "wasting other people's time" it's "fun" vs. "unfun." Yes, games are a waste of time in one sense, but at least they're fun, right? Unless you have to wait for one person to get their act together with the mechanics. I mean, this is fine, sometimes. But as content becomes dated, more and more people will have experiences where people know what they're doing. Because of these experiences, people will come to expect people to know what they're doing. If they get into a group where someone doesn't know what they're doing, it is really a lot easier to leave, take a penalty, and requeue than to spend an hour hoping the mechanics click for the one person who doesn't know what they're doing.

[Sapphic]

It might help to think about it another way. Instead of "wasting other people's time" it's "fun" vs. "unfun." Yes, games are a waste of time in one sense, but at least they're fun, right? Unless you have to wait for one person to get their act together with the mechanics. I mean, this is fine, sometimes. But as content becomes dated, more and more people will have experiences where people know what they're doing. Because of these experiences, people will come to expect people to know what they're doing. If they get into a group where someone doesn't know what they're doing, it is really a lot easier to leave, take a penalty, and requeue than to spend an hour hoping the mechanics click for the one person who doesn't know what they're doing.

That's the thing, Coris is wanting others to take their situation into consideration without anything in return, which, tbh, is selfish.

Also Coris, how long do you think it took even statics to learn and clear turn 9 from scratch? one complete run? nope. Weeks of running with the exact same players and figuring out, practising and progressing a phase at a time. It takes time and effort to learn going into a brand new fight. Also you cannot get that experience going in with experienced players and expecting to learn it blind as they knowledge of the fight is already there, the experience of clearing it is already there with many, yet not with you. You bring nothing to the party that they wouldnt be better off having someone else who is at least, in theory due to reading guides, at a similar level of knowedge. Note I said knowledge, not experience.

If you want to get the going in blind experience and learning from scratch then you need to find 7 other similar players and take it from there.

[Parapluies]

@Davester:
What other options did/do I have then? I went with one friend - more were either busy or offline. I had a PF up before too and what I think of guides is what I've said above.
I think DF is meant to be used to go in a fight if you can't get a (full) group beforehand. I want to learn that fight but with people leaving fast or not joining at all that's not an easy thing to do.

I like that "wasting other people's time" thing. Imho there are people out there who would consider playing games/MMOs as a waste of time...

By the way, I also think it is a matter of wording too. I accept it when others don't want to play with first timers through DF, but getting nasty about it? Please no.

Isnt "My PF didnt fill up" the very evidence that none want to do your way ? Why keep wasting other's time ?

[Davester]

snip

hmm let's see,regarding the wasting other people's time thingie,please realize that not everyone has much free time,i know(and play)with alot of people that can only free about 10 hours a week max for games,which are meant to be fun,consider the person with those 10 hours a week,give it 15 minutes for queue to pop,now,a person that knows what to do makes things faster,even if they do wipe on the same mechanics you wipe on(which in t9 without a guide is pretty much every single one,twice or thrice on some even if you stop making last time's mistake every single time) it takes less time because that person now understands what the guide was saying,and can avoid the wipe next time,but a person with no knowledge will end up costing people alot of time explaining what happened to them(which frankly if you are all for the learn myself you don't want)or rightfully call you a prick for not listening to what they said,in doing that you not only ruined your "learn it yourself experience" you also wasted 7 other people's mostly limited time they set aside for fun on boring,frustrating wipes because one person decided they shouldn't watch a guide.
also if your group isn't filling,first i have to repeat,that DOES NOT give you the right to be a liability to other people,consider trying at a different time,ask you friends for help,find people with the same interest and make a static(and never worry about filling a group again)be creative,just because you probably will never meet those 7 people again doesn't mean you get to just go in and cause them all endless wipes and frustration

[GenJoe]

@Davester:
What other options did/do I have then? I went with one friend - more were either busy or offline. I had a PF up before too and what I think of guides is what I've said above.
I think DF is meant to be used to go in a fight if you can't get a (full) group beforehand. I want to learn that fight but with people leaving fast or not joining at all that's not an easy thing to do.

I like that "wasting other people's time" thing. Imho there are people out there who would consider playing games/MMOs as a waste of time...

By the way, I also think it is a matter of wording too. I accept it when others don't want to play with first timers through DF, but getting nasty about it? Please no.

Tbh, you don't need any excuses to play how you'd like.. Just don't expect other people to be okay with it because they are also entitled to their own opinions..
If they're DPS and have been waiting in the df for 30 or 40 minutes, do expect that they will be angry to get an unprepared person in the group. You can also argue that it's DF, if they wanted preparedness they shoulda gone with PF etc. etc. etc.. You can basically copy paste this entire thread to support your side and your opposition could do the same. Nobody's reaction is warranted in this case, but it shouldn't be hard to realize why each side has the reaction they're getting. Just put on a thick skin and deal with it.

I'll go into DF groups completely unprepared sometimes and expect a carry, works most of the time, but when I do get called out I don't expect people to be nice when they find out

Mind you, I did start a PF with a comment about "first time" and "learning it without having to watch a guide first" before entering the DF but other than a friend who went with me in the first place, no one else would join. Maybe it was because of the time (after midnight), but I have a bit of a bad feeling it won't be better if I try it during the day/evening again.

Your criteria is way too specific.. I understand that you don't want to spoil your experience by watching a video beforehand but you have to realize that the boat has sailed on that..
Perhaps if you were doing coils as soon as it came out, you would've found enough people to tackle it blindly, but majority of the player base has simply moved on.. They just want to get it over with. You're gonna need to get a group together for it, it's not easy I know, but you have no other options... You COULD just make a learning group, without tacking on additional criterion, but that'll probably get you that one person who's gonna explain the entire fight to you in words anyway..


Like I said, you CAN just sneak into a DF group and hope other people don't give you crap for not knowing the fight.. Just don't expect to find many sympathizers to your cause, not many will share your sentiment about not watching a video beforehand.

[Coris]

-snip-

My posts contained two-three of these points but even though I posted in a thread with the word "elitist" in the title, I don't remember calling the players I encountered last night elitists.

-snip-

Like I said, you CAN just sneak into a DF group and hope other people don't give you crap for not knowing the fight.. Just don't expect to find many sympathizers to your cause, not many will share your sentiment about not watching a video beforehand.

Sneaking into DF? :/
I thought it is only 'possible' to sneak into a PF group, lying about your things ("I've done this before!").

I guess we got a different opinion about when to use DF and when PF. As I said, I tried both.
Talked with friends about it and one of them gave me a better example for a fitting text in PF.

[GenJoe]

My posts contained two-three of these points but even though I posted in a thread with the word "elitist" in the title, I don't remember calling the players I encountered last night elitists.




Sneaking into DF? :/
I thought it is only 'possible' to sneak into a PF group, lying about your things ("I've done this before!").

I guess we got a different opinion about when to use DF and when PF. As I said, I tried both.
Talked with friends about it and one of them gave me a better example for a fitting text in PF.

That's just a semantics, you can "join" a DF unprepared and hope the other people don't give you crap . . . better? :P

It's not like I don't understand the deal with people like you, I have a friend that's way worse. It's so bad when we got together at his house and we started playing Dark Souls 2, he literally left the room and had us call him when we were done..
Gathers every single shard, has not used a single macro for crafting, does every single craft manually.. now THAT's problematic.

Only difference is that he's self aware of his quirks, so when he needs to do a dungeon, he'll let us know in person and we work out our schedules sometimes waiting 3,4 days until me and another friend can log in for dungeons because he'd feel rushed and not be able to enjoy the dungeons in a DF setting.

I'm not talking about whether you should or shouldn't.. I'm simply stating the fact that when you join a group... of ANY kind, people will inevitably have some expectations of you.
You could run into a pessimist like myself who usually expect everybody to be noobs and set the bar real low.. OR you could run into one who has high hopes for you, expects you to be some super tank/heal/dps or whatever.. Different people will have different expectations, do I personally expect people to know what they're doing in DF? No, have I seen people in DF that expect others to perform flawlessly? For Satasha nm? Waaay too often.

I'm not judging you either way, all I'm saying is, you WILL run into people who'll call you out no matter the circumstance.. Deserving or not, you WILL get shat on randomly, just grow a thick skin and expect the worst.

[Coris]

I'm not judging you either way, all I'm saying is, you WILL run into people who'll call you out no matter the circumstance.. Deserving or not, you WILL get shat on randomly, just grow a thick skin and expect the worst.

To be honest, I think this is rather sad ._.
Always having to expect that the other persons are jerks or whatever. This makes me much more happy when I get to know / encounter a nice person ingame.

On a sidenote: I don't craft with macros too xD But then again, I am not into x-star crafting (yet). No clue how this has to do something with others though - I mean, I don't disturb anyone else than myself when not using macros for crafts, no? @.@

[GenJoe]

To be honest, I think this is rather sad ._.
Always having to expect that the other persons are jerks or whatever. This makes me much more happy when I get to know / encounter a nice person ingame.

On a sidenote: I don't craft with macros too xD But then again, I am not into x-star crafting (yet). No clue how this has to do something with others though - I mean, I don't disturb anyone else than myself when not using macros for crafts, no? @.@

No, I'm simply pointing out the lengths my friend takes it to, you two probably share a similar playing style..
and just because I expect most people I meet to be noobs, doesn't mean my friend list is a barren wasteland.. I just don't expect random people I meet to be worth their salt.

If you do, great, good for you. Just don't expect others to be the same, because there are all kinds of people in this game.. Some incredibly unpleasant for no reason.

Like I said, you're free to play the game however you'd like to play.. it's YOUR time and YOUR money after all..
Just don't be surprised if other people play it differently when you join a group content..