Why I Decided to Become an Elitist

[HexWeaver]

Then you've already solved your own problem and have no reason to post here anymore. =o

Public forum bruh, besides, mostly..

[Kosmos992k]

So the lesson here is that both groups seem to be fed up with each other. The difference is that elitists are perfectly happy just grouping up with each other, while everyone else wants to group up with elitists. (So long as they shut up and carry them without complaining.)

No, the lesson here is that far too many people do not understand the difference between actually being elite and being an elitist. Some seem to want to view elitism and elitists in a counter-intuitively positive light, and others appear to think elitists are players who aspire to being among the elite. The truth is, no one wants to group with elitists becuase their behavior can be extremely counter productive.

TL;DR Being elite is NOT the same as being an elitist or participating in elitism.

[Skivvy]

So the lesson here is that both groups seem to be fed up with each other. The difference is that elitists are perfectly happy just grouping up with each other, while everyone else wants to group up with elitists. (So long as they shut up and carry them without complaining.)

If that is what you took from this thread, then you seriously fail at reading comprehension.

[Kiroh]

Public forum bruh, besides, mostly..

The funniest thing to me is that you get so pissy with your arguments, when in reality you agree completely with the OP. They (and everyone else) have been saying all along "if you don't like elitists, don't group with them, find people who have the same experience as you do".

The response to that has been a resounding "but I don't want to spend the time to do that! STOP BEING ROOD!"

If that is what you took from this thread, then you seriously fail at reading comprehension.

If that's what you believe then you haven't read any of the first 30 pages.

(Also I love that every person railing against elitists because they have "bad attitudes" resorts to insulting people and dismissing their arguments out of hand as a way to try to make their point that elitists are rude...)

No, the lesson here is that far too many people do not understand the difference between actually being elite and being an elitist. Some seem to want to view elitism and elitists in a counter-intuitively positive light, and others appear to think elitists are players who aspire to being among the elite. The truth is, no one wants to group with elitists becuase their behavior can be extremely counter productive.

TL;DR Being elite is NOT the same as being an elitist or participating in elitism.

There have been a lot of people who agree with the OP making exactly the same point. Elitist is used broadly to define anyone more skilled, even if the person isn't being rude at all they often get abused for trying to help. Also that the vast majority of the people the community sees as elitists (aka the 1wipedisband PFs) are not elite players at all, but people who just want to be carried.

[Magusrex]

None of us really care if you are elite. What we care about is that if you join group content, be it PF or DF that you care about how performance affects others.

We would like to know if you are new to the encounter.

If you are new, that you be receptive to advice.

If you have tried something before, and repeatedly died that you make the attempt to find out why and fix the problem(watch video, read guide, ask someone get better gear ect.) Please don't join DF for the same duty if you were just dead more than you were alive without doing something first.

I don't expect you to watch a video before you try everything unless you know have a hard time with new content. I expect you to know who you are by now.

If you try, care about your performance, are receptive to advice I will stay to the end of the timers and I will staunchly defend you against anyone who belittles/bullies you.

Basically if you care about me and my time I will care about you and your time. If you expect to be carried and bristle at advice....go to hell.

[Skivvy]

Most people do not have an issue with skilled players.
Most people do not like players that are assholes to others due to not meeting some personal their own expectations.
There is a way to be skilled in this game, and not be a gigantic twat.
Most casual players are not leeches.
Most skilled players are not assholes.

There are no absolutes when it comes to people and gamers.


Also, the refusal to accept the common definition of "elitist" in this thread is mind-boggling. What term would you prefer that we use for those players that think they are better than everyone else and berate anyone who doesn't hold up to their self-imposed standards?

[Skivvy]

None of us really care if you are elite. What we care about is that if you join group content, be it PF or DF that you care about how performance affects others.

We would like to know if you are new to the encounter.

If you are new, that you be receptive to advice.

If you have tried something before, and repeatedly died that you make the attempt to find out why and fix the problem(watch video, read guide, ask someone get better gear ect.) Please don't join DF for the same duty if you were just dead more than you were alive without doing something first.

I don't expect you to watch a video before you try everything unless you know have a hard time with new content. I expect you to know who you are by now.

If you try, care about your performance, are receptive to advice I will stay to the end of the timers and I will staunchly defend you against anyone who belittles/bullies you.

Basically if you care about me and my time I will care about you and your time. If you expect to be carried and bristle at advice....go to hell.

So basic respect and courtesy

Perhaps that is what this thread should have been discussing. It's not really a matter of the elite vs. casual, It's about those who have respect for their fellow players, and those who don't. Both attitudes can be found within all skill levels.



edit: woopsie, double-post X:

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

None of us really care if you are elite. What we care about is that if you join group content, be it PF or DF that you care about how performance affects others.

We would like to know if you are new to the encounter.

If you are new, that you be receptive to advice.

If you have tried something before, and repeatedly died that you make the attempt to find out why and fix the problem(watch video, read guide, ask someone get better gear ect.) Please don't join DF for the same duty if you were just dead more than you were alive without doing something first.

I don't expect you to watch a video before you try everything unless you know have a hard time with new content. I expect you to know who you are by now.

If you try, care about your performance, are receptive to advice I will stay to the end of the timers and I will staunchly defend you against anyone who belittles/bullies you.

Basically if you care about me and my time I will care about you and your time. If you expect to be carried and bristle at advice....go to hell.

THIS. Plain and simple. I said it before and I'll say it again: There are those of us who play this "just-a-game" and work hard to not only be good at it, but ensure that when we are part of a team in-game - which is the core of MMO gaming, mind you - we are able to perform at our best.

And there are those who don't care. On both sides. Those who are good and feel the need to look down upon others and refuse to help, AND those who refuse to make effort, improve, or receive help from those who have more knowledge/skill/experience. Dealing with either type is NOT fun, whether you're good or not. It's a huge buzzkill. Especially when we are scoffed at or shunned for making the efforts to be good. I would dare say this is what very well creates the Elitists that people so very much hate (beyond of course people who are just naturally inclined to have a nasty attitude). The way this game is designed, it truly doesn't matter if I'm good and 7 others are bad any more than if I'm bad and 7 others are good. But if everyone takes charge and exercises a little personal accountability and TRIES TO BE GOOD, by properly preparing, making efforts, and following through, then the gap and distinctions quickly don't matter and disappear.

[Kiroh]

Perhaps that is what this thread should have been discussing. It's not really a matter of the elite vs. casual, It's about those who have respect for their fellow players, and those who don't. Both attitudes can be found within all skill levels.

That was kind of what this entire thread was all about, people who don't like the way something is phrased refusing to listen and calling people elitist.

If someone is giving you advice, pay less attention to how they say it and more attention to what they say. Too many people in the game get upset and either refuse to listen, or just lash out.

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Story time : Note, this actually happened to me.

I was running Labyrinth one day for a weekly and I noticed as we reached the armor that no one was keeping the pots alive.

Me : Guys, we need to keep the pots, or at least one of them alive. If we don't we'll wipe.
Alliance member : Don't tell me how to play the game, I pay every month and I'll play how I want.
Me : I'm not telling you how to play, I'm telling you that keeping at least one pot alive is the bare minimum standard for clearing this fight.
Alliance member : Having ANY standards is elitist!
Me : Then you need to take it up with SE, because it's a standard they set.

That wasn't even the first time that day I'd been called an elitist, or even the silliest reason for it. I felt a lot the same way as the OP at that moment : "Screw it, if knowing what to do makes me an elitist well I guess I'm an elitist".

[Skivvy]

That was kind of what this entire thread was all about, people who don't like the way something is phrased refusing to listen and calling people elitist.
If someone is giving you advice, pay less attention to how they say it and more attention to what they say. Too many people in the game get upset and either refuse to listen, or just lash out.

Except for the fact that the OP typed up a novel making it sound like the world was against the poor elitists*, that they are the true victims due to having to deal with the dirty casual folk who laugh at the constant failures in games , have no desire to better themselves, who merely want handouts, who won't bother trying to better themselves. The struggle! It was a poorly written, and very sensationalized piece of work. And it got a lot of bandwagoners.

It was not a nice post asking people to show respect to their fellow player. Perhaps to put a little move effort from BOTH sides into making things work when put together in a duty, it was an attempt to make a certain group feel better at the expense of another. All the while throwing jabs at those less skilled.

And then even yourself:

So the lesson here is that both groups seem to be fed up with each other. The difference is that elitists are perfectly happy just grouping up with each other, while everyone else wants to group up with elitists. (So long as they shut up and carry them without complaining.)

Once again implying that the elitists* are perfectly fine and happy, but it's everyone else that is causing the trouble.

That was kind of what this entire thread was all about, people who don't like the way something is phrased refusing to listen and calling people elitist.

If someone is giving you advice, pay less attention to how they say it and more attention to what they say. Too many people in the game get upset and either refuse to listen, or just lash out.

And you are still passing the blame onto the non-elitist* claiming it's their fault for not taking the advice well, they're the ones lashing out. As if the elitist* knows best, and should be able to control everyone else in all situations.

It is so much than one small example.

I would love for you to go through this thread and dig out all the people who preached respect for all players. You'll find that the amount of people with this message were far outnumbered by those bashing on the other side.

-----------------
Story time : Note, this actually happened to me.

I was running Labyrinth one day for a weekly and I noticed as we reached the armor that no one was keeping the pots alive.

Me : Guys, we need to keep the pots, or at least one of them alive. If we don't we'll wipe.
Alliance member : Don't tell me how to play the game, I pay every month and I'll play how I want.
Me : I'm not telling you how to play, I'm telling you that keeping at least one pot alive is the bare minimum standard for clearing this fight.
Alliance member : Having ANY standards is elitist!
Me : Then you need to take it up with SE, because it's a standard they set.

That wasn't even the first time that day I'd been called an elitist, or even the silliest reason for it. I felt a lot the same way as the OP at that moment : "Screw it, if knowing what to do makes me an elitist well I guess I'm an elitist".

Anecdotal evidence doesn't help here. There are also plenty of stories to be found of elitists* screaming at people over nothing. We all have stories to share. But in the case of your example, sounds like they were screwing with you. Labrynth is a troll fest. Welcome to the party.

*I am using their term. In no way to I think a skilled player is the same as an elitist. Tired of splitting hairs.