Do you think sell groups are hurting end game community?

[Kallera]

And when it involves players buying gil from dodgy websiters to fund there clear buying, then it doesn't just affect endgame, it affects the WHOLE game. Not just from the extra gil being injected into the community, but due to them buying gil and keeping a market in game for gil sellers, it affects everyones experience. Because of them new players are getting numerous gil seller tells before they even get out of the starter cutscenes. Such a nice impression to give to new players, Gil spam in the first minute.

Not to mention these numerous clear selling advertisements are clogging up the pf along with generally uninviting pf parties. This is hardly the image you want to show people of endgame or the community.

[Peachy]

Those people who want to clear are going to make party finders / learning groups and work for a clear.

But those who want to just have the completion / clear and don't actually care about knowing it, AKA buyers, are going to buy. Mixing these groups up is incorrect because simply put - these buyers aren't the ones going into learning / clear / farm parties.

I agree with this, which enforces my point that buying runs is cheating, those willing to cheat will cheat. "I couldnt find a group" is such a cop out, I know ppl who use that excuse and I know for a fact they barely looked for a group, its just the frustration of the few they had been in, then coming to the conclusion they are good enough but its impossible with crappy players.. ironic. No matter how you justify it supporting cheaters hurts the community even if you cant directly see it.

[Darra]

And when it involves players buying gil from dodgy websiters to fund there clear buying, then it doesn't just affect endgame, it affects the WHOLE game. Not just from the extra gil being injected into the community, but due to them buying gil and keeping a market in game for gil sellers, it affects everyones experience. Because of them new players are getting numerous gil seller tells before they even get out of the starter cutscenes. Such a nice impression to give to new players, Gil spam in the first minute.

All you're really saying is "RMT is annoying me with the advertising". You're also arguing that it's kill sellers that are the primary driver of RMT. This is completely ignorant. You're ignoring materia costs and crafted item costs. 1 Zodiac will set a player back 3-8million, if they use grade IV materia. T9 runs cost approx 2million on Odin, that's 1-3 runs you could get for the cost of some Zodiacs. Then there is the housing and the crafted items, that's a major driver in RMT too. You've not once commented on how that harms the community as a whole, but are placing the blame solely on kill sellers. I am a occasional kill seller, and know players that have bought too, and at least half of sells or more, from my experience, are not for 1st time clears, they are also done with gil earned in a legitimate way. All you're doing is looking for a scapegoat and kill sellers are your target.

[Mimoza]

I'll speak a little bit about my personnal experience as run seller.
At first i didn't wanted to sell runs because i was thinking like some of you "yeah it's just encouraging players to buy gils from RMT" but one day a friend i made into the game told me "come on we need one more DPS for T9 sale" and since i was the only person online i accepted. After this experience i kept selling runs for one reason beside the money factor : it helps you to improve yourself. When you are doing a 7-man content, the room for mistakes is getting really tight (okay now with 15% echo on Scob and i130 it's not a challenge anymore, but trust me, T10-13 7-man are kinda challenging o.o). During a sale, some good players from different statics gather (depending on disponibilities) so you can actually compare yourself to them (without any kind of parser) just by looking at their rotation and things like that. And even then, i keep helping some players on PF for free when i see a PF like "help on Coil/Primal/whatever else, exp players welcome" and some players who are selling runs with me are also helping for free like that.From what i saw, run buyers are mostly big crafters, dominating the economy on the server, but sometimes it happens that a player tell us "ok wait i'll ask to my RMT to give me 15m". When this kind of thing happen, we just report him and refuse to sell the run. Ppl who are selling runs like me just for the taste of the challenge won't accept things like encouraging RMT, but well, unfortunately there are also sellers who just want to make money without any kind of mercy :/ you can't really change that...

[Warlyx]

one thing i dont understand is why raiding isnt self-sustainable in other mmorpgs , raids habe BOE gear , or drops some mats to craft , with that raiders can generate ingame money to buy potions , or craft the gear with the dropped mats.

FFXIV however is different raiding is a money sink , even if u win all the time , the food , potions and potential wipes (repairs) .

Why dont every turn finished dont reward an ammount of gil is beyond me.

[Bluevann]

sometimes it happens that a player tell us "ok wait i'll ask to my RMT to give me 15m".

Do you really charge that much...? I cannot even picture a single drop worth 15M...

[Urthdigger]

The only issue I have with run selling really is the lack of people willing to do a normal learning party, nobody wants to assist on a run where noobs die over and over again, but feel there's no community obligation to help the new players because "they can farm up 10 mil and buy it."

I've helped friends and friends of friends, and the party forming is always the worst part. If it's not folks wanting to lie and say experienced players only to try and sneak the new player through, it's folks saying he should just buy a clear from one of the many groups advertising.

[Mimoza]

Do you really charge that much...? I cannot even picture a single drop worth 15M...

We do old content at 700k (everything except final coil more or less). That is the minimal price we can put for a sale, nobody will come under 100k/person. But fights like T13 are worth 15-50m in my opinion. Last phase is really hard with 7man since the OT will be targeted by both the twister AND the megaflare which means he have to stay close enough to the groupe to share the mega and far enough to avoid killing the whole party with twister. I know those are high prices but well it requires training to sell T13 even with 10% echo and i130 gear. We can't do it finger in the nose. When you are paying for 7ppl to do your job and you just have to stay dead the whole fight you may expect high prices on new contents, that's fair imo. If you don't have that money, just put a PF like "T13 training" and i'll be happy to join and give some advices but it will surely take more time and efforts to get the kill.

[Bluevann]

But fights like T13 are worth 15-50m in my opinion.

[Wulfyn]

Nope. Clear selling has always been in games. The real problem lies in the ban on parsers and not being able to call anyone out for being bad. Party sucks? Better disband it because we might get reported if we tell Tommy and Timmy to step up their game.

Exactly why they are not allowed. It's players like you that drive away others. What do you think that will accomplish? It sure won't help the games growth or longevity. Some players in this game have no patience let alone civility. A good player to me is one who is positive for the community, is humble, and helps others for that reward that isn't tied to what do I get attitude. Me and my friends agree, most of you would't even last in FFXI pre WotG. Gimme gimme gimme selfish rush rush you suck I am superior (in a video game the vast majority of the world could care less) attitude seems to abound. Community on servers needs alot of improvement.