Do you think sell groups are hurting end game community?

[GenJoe]

- Kill selling increasing
- RMT increasing
- only a minority of high end crafters buy kills

- Contents increasing
- 3.0 approaching
- RMT increasing
- Euro depreciating
- Summer vacation approaching



Easy to make unfounded correlations.


http://twentytwowords.com/funny-grap...ts-9-pictures/


Let's play Counter-Factuals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lpY0Kt4bn8

[ShaneDawn]

@Gen

I don't brand you an advocate of run-selling, even if we have different ideals. More than ruining my personal sense of achievement, I'm simply opposed to having such backhanded ways in this game. I can understand some people wanting to see the story, but the sheer number of people who buy their clear to greed off of farm parties/get the gear is actually higher than one would think.

[ShaneDawn]

More than anything, I am opposed to pay-to-win (the raiding, not the game) mechanics. As I said, the reason why RMT is so high in our game falls to three things. BiS crafted gear, run-selling and the occasional few doing it for vanity items. While the advantage is questionable, it exists. BiS gear->RMT and run-selling->More RMT. While I could be indifferebt about the litter that is RMT and run-selling, I choose not to be because of personal sense of justice and enjoyment. If someone chooses to overlook it, I don't blame them. It's nothing game breaking for me personally, but I don't want to ignore it out of the principle.

But in the end, with or without run-selling (and RMT) it falls down to one thing at the end of the game; whether I had fun or not. I will continue trying to enjoy the game to the best I can, even if there are things I don't consider "right".

Ps. I reaaaally hate messaging with the phone

[Ditto]

It's hilarious how many posts I've just read that continuously tie "Run selling" with RMT. It involves the games main tradable currency, it's OBVIOUSLY going to involve RMT as well. That's how it works, if there is an economy, if the game is popular and shows a potential for RMT's to make profit off of, they're going to target the game. This is a huge game, it has a big economy where when it comes to prestige, vanity, best in slot, it all creates the flow of large amounts of gil. Getting rid of the act of selling runs isn't going to suddenly make RMT's disappear, or become less persistent through the game. Hell, why is this even a thought? Going by the logic of that, adding absolutely anything to the economy is promoting RMT, and should all be removed. Remove the entire relic questline, remove rare crafting drops, remove buyable furniture. Hell just remove gil completely and we can go and farm everything.

Except, oh wait, RMT will still be there trying to sell 'hard labor' by using your account to farm specific things, power level services, continue to sell anything that is tradable. All of it. They aren't going anywhere. People need to stop acting like they are, the game has over 4 million active subscribers, it's blown up with ridiculous amounts of popularity, and even more so with Heavensward, but the game so happens to be an online MMO that has what is called an 'economy'. When there is a demand for currency, a demand for services, a demand for ANYTHING, there will always be someone there to supply if it's worth it for them.

Now on the topic of run selling, and not the idiotic thought that run selling is the only thing causing the plague of RMT's running about, no, selling run selling does not effect the end game economy/community at all. It's a business, it's hard labor, it's time taken out of a groups day. If someone wants to sell runs, so be it, who cares? There isn't any other way to efficiently make money via raiding anyway, so who gives a crap?

If someone wants to buy runs, who cares? People here acting as if "Oh no, he joined my party finder group and he's bad, he HAD to of bought a run, I cant kick him, my game is forever ruined because I'm FORCED to play with this individual"

News flare, the ability to kick people does exist. The ability to leave groups does exist. The ability to communicate with group leaders does exist. The ability to create your own group with your own rules does exist. The ability to choose who you play with (Outside of DF) does exist. And if you are using DF, what are you expecting? The Duty Finder is the #1 place people often go to, not expecting immediate clears, and are simply trying to get a feel for whatever the group is capable of progressing to. I mean I sure as hell don't go into T12/13 DF and expect to clear it. If it happens, then neat I just got a clear, a chance at some loot, whatever, but I'm not setting my hopes high.

Double news flare, just because someone is bad, doesn't mean they bought runs. There are TONS of reasons as to why someone could be performing badly even having cleared the content required to unlock what they are doing.

Triple news flare, bad people exist with or without run selling! I know it's amazing, but people all progress at different paces. Some people lack raid awareness completely, some people have very little common sense when it comes to MMO's because they picked the game up due it being headed with the loveable title they've known and loved since they were a wee lad in 1987 on their awesome NES. They exist, and will always exist, whether you like it or not.

Quadruple news flare, Just because they are in possession of a large amount of gil does not mean they bought it. Making money in this game takes time sure, but it isn't that hard if you put the effort into it. I'm fairly lazy, so I often only carry just over 1 mil on me, plus I buy a load of glamor stuff, but that's my problem. If I wanted to focus on actually making hardcore amounts of money daily, study the market board and learn to flip sales, buy low and sell higher, I would, and if I did, I would probably easily have enough to buy a turn 13 clear if I wanted to. And this whole thing about people accepting the buyers gil and not caring where it comes from, 'promoting' more RMT use.. Really? I'm more than sure the people saying this have sold items on the market board. Do you REALLY think hard about where the money you're about to receive comes from? No. You likely don't think about it at all and simple accept what your retainer makes each day you log in. Believe it or not, selling stuff to others is no different when it comes to whether or not the gil you received is dirty or not.

Now I'm not even going to talk much about whether people find it 'immoral' or not, but what I will say is, no one needs cares about YOUR morals. Especially not the people buying runs. And that's good, that's the way it should be, that's the way it NEEDS to be. Are you also against homosexuality? Do you go protesting against gay marriage because you find it 'immoral'? Do you have to so badly force your OWN morals, and what you think is right and wrong, down others throats? "But it's hurting the end game economy/community!" excuse is the biggest load of *kuppo* I have ever seen, and is nothing but a desperate attempt to justify their own vocal dislike against what they don't like, and think to be 'immoral', while they have absolutely no backing to it. "Oh I got a bad player in my group, thanks run sellers"

/end what people will probably read as an angry rant.

[AkashiXI]

Lately I've seen groups on Adamantoise selling content like Pony farming so you're guaranteed the drop. I'm honestly all for that, as I know a number of people who are chasing the Kirin mount and they have terrible luck. I also don't mind when someone buys a turn for a specific drop (and they'll farm it until said drop appears), which I'm all for as well. I do think there are a wide array of reasons of why people buy content, and it's not as black/white as some would like to think.

[Jamein]

Probably about 1% of the bad players in PF are those who paid for the run, most of them are people who managed to get carried through in kill groups and they will still be showing up in your PF farm parties so honestly even if you obliterated all run sellers it would barely make a difference to the end game raiding community.
It's also worth it to note, a lot of people get the kill once and then go instantly join a farm party, even though they really aren't that comfortable on the fight, a scrappy clear doesn't mean you're good enough for farms.

Honestly, run sellers make little difference in my opinion.

[StubHub]

Back in my early MMO days i used to give many a fuck about Clear Buyers/Gil Buyers/RMT. When conversations came up about it i would be offended and talk about how it ruined the integrity of the game. And would argue how it affected me personally. Much like alot of the points brought up here.

As i've gotten older, i just don't give a shit anymore. People want to offer an in game service for ingame currency? Go ahead. It doesn't effect me on a regular enough basis to get worked up over. Will i get stuck in groups with people who clearly bought a run? Most definitely. Will i get stuck in groups with people who were clearly carried by their static free of charge? Certainly. I just don't have the time/willpower to give enough of a shit to find out which case it is every time i'm in a party with someone who has no business there. And the same with RMT. Some people get such hard-ons trying to play Dick Tracy and catch all the botters/rmt groups.

I have a much better time playing a game worrying about myself/friends than i do looking for reasons to be offended at something that impacts me marginally at most. So to answer the OP title directly. I don't think it hurts the end game community enough to warrant an outcry about it.

[Medieval]

Their is a legitimate concern over real money trading being encouraged because of run sales, but there is no solid correlation between the two. Until one and one equals two, I find all complaints to be hearsay.

EDIT: I got linked here, I did not notice how dead this thread was until just after I posted. lol

[Dragoon4life]

What's wrong with helping
It absolutely hurts the player base.
People need to learn/practice Mechanics to beat stuff.
I hate seeing NO BONUS you will be kicked in PF.

[Arkanethered]

Needs Necro-bump notifications