Specialist System in 3.0

[ZephyrZ]

I mean it's a hard truth to point out but the overall design of crafting leaves very few options. When IQ Stacks + Byregot's is the only feasible way to complete any craft that you aren't grossly outgearing/outleveling then it leaves very little room for strategy and creativity.

Imagine if every iteration of Coil had the same exact mechanics as the previous iterations, the only difference being it got progressively less forgiving when you mess up. That's what crafting has felt like from 2* progressing to 4*.

If we got end game recipes that functioned like Ixali, I'd be excited just to be able to do a recipe that didn't involve farming IQ stacks.

This makes me sad; "IQ Stacks + Byregot's"; goes to show that you don't know crafting at all if you think that's all it is. Sure we have set rotations but so do all DoW and DoM classes. Individual recipes follow a set rotation but still deviate based on situation. The same thing happens in coil, you follow a previously planned strategy and if you execute it right, and don't make mistake then you get a clear. They both fall into human error. Also, every iteration of fcob already has a mechanic which was previously used in 2nd coil or binding. If anything fcob is a lot easier than 2nd coil ever was. Crafting is fine the way it currently is, i like the random element that keeps players who don't know what they are doing down. Already a more intricate system than most mmo's.

Differentiating all the different crafting classes is plain, well casual talk. Oh it's too hard to have all 8 level'd. Well gee, because most didn't have to level 2-4 cross class for DoW and DoM. But if we want to be technical about it. No you don't need to have 8 crafting classes to 50.

Only one essential is carpenter(byrgot's).

Nice to have are armorer (pbp), goldsmith(innovation), Alchemist(comfort zone), blacksmith(ingenuity ii)

Not needed at all: culinarian(reclaim), Leather worker(waste not ii), weaver(careful synth ii)

Granted you do need to get em to at least 15, 37 for cul but that takes 15minutes and less than 100k for all 8.

[RiceisNice]

...

Have you done any 3-4★ crafting? You need a good amount of IQ stacks to be able to get a good rate of HQ for high level crafts. PbP, inno, CZ and CSII are also pretty damn essential; even if you start at 394 CP, thats nowhere near enough if you have to use up more steps for progression and less for quality.

[Sibyll]

Only one essential is carpenter(byrgot's).

Nice to have are armorer (pbp), goldsmith(innovation), Alchemist(comfort zone), blacksmith(ingenuity ii)

Not needed at all: culinarian(reclaim)...

I'm assuming this is if you don't want to do anything higher than 2*, unless you are saying it's a good idea to do Mastercraft II books without Reclaim and with PbP and Comfort Zone being optional. How are you building IQ stacks for your Byregot's? Basic Touch 11 times?

[GenJoe]

I'm assuming this is if you don't want to do anything higher than 2*, unless you are saying it's a good idea to do Mastercraft II books without Reclaim and with PbP and Comfort Zone being optional. How are you building IQ stacks for your Byregot's? Basic Touch 11 times?

Well I suppose it is possible to do what he's talking about.. Not all cross classes are 100% necessary.. But to reach the level of understanding in crafting without actually having done all 8 classes to level 50, requires a special breed of people.. Also, lots and lots of research plus simulator work. At which point, the endeavor becomes a more hardcore one than to just level all 8 and certainly not for a casual crafter.

[scarebearz]

Only one essential is carpenter(byrgot's).

Nice to have are armorer (pbp), goldsmith(innovation), Alchemist(comfort zone), blacksmith(ingenuity ii)

Not needed at all: culinarian(reclaim), Leather worker(waste not ii), weaver(careful synth ii)

For unlocking Master II books PbP is pretty much essential, unless you want to waste a lot of mats.

For my Alt, I waited until I had Carp, Arm and Alch 50 (cul 37 and rest 15) before unlocking the master II books, I was using the quest mainhand tool and easily got 3HQ before I made 5 NQ (for supra).

So I think I could have done them without Alch 50, but could not have without Byregot's and PbP. (though I agree PbP is not needed for "normal" 3*/4* crafts, but you need to unlock 4* first xD)

If people already have their Supra tool, Reclaim makes a lot of sence.

[ZephyrZ]

I can't believe how dense you both are. First off, one of the first 4 star crafters across all servers and had all 8 lucis within 24 hours of release. I been crafting while you were still in your mothers womb sucking your thumbs. Walk before you run.

Have you done any 3-4★ crafting? You need a good amount of IQ stacks to be able to get a good rate of HQ for high level crafts. PbP, inno, CZ and CSII are also pretty damn essential; even if you start at 394 CP, thats nowhere near enough if you have to use up more steps for progression and less for quality.

You need a minimum of 9 and with a solid rotation you should rarely if ever get less than that. 11 is ideal and easy as well. If you had read my post, i mentioned pbp being essential. However innovation is not because most of the time a GS + BB is your finisher, chances are you won't even have the cp for an inno. CZ is a great skill but is in no way necessary. Two cz's per craft is roughly 1 lost ToT. On the other hand, CSII is a waste of a cross class in most cases because there is no difference between 120% and 100% progress gained when you complete the synth in the same number of steps, make sure to run your synth under stead hand like you normally would.

I'm assuming this is if you don't want to do anything higher than 2*, unless you are saying it's a good idea to do Mastercraft II books without Reclaim and with PbP and Comfort Zone being optional. How are you building IQ stacks for your Byregot's? Basic Touch 11 times?

Silly silly child, the point is that they aren't necessary. The rotation isn't as optimized for master books 2 but it can stiill be done regardless. 7 steps, comparerd to 6. 5x RS + 2x SS. You can get master book 2 without reclaim, won't be cheap but it can be done.

The whole topic was about what is essential to reliably craft 3 and 4 star. The only esssential skills are level 15, 37 and bb at 50. There are already several RS rotations that you can look up if you can't figure it out yourself that complete 4 star synth in 5 or 6 steps. You can use RS to gain most of the progress and finish with BS & SS. The essential crafting skills that we use such as Master's Mend 1 and 2, GS are available to every class.

Naturally the more cross class skills you obtain, the more wiggle room you have but that in no way makes them essential. Blood for blood, lets you put out a lot more damage but that in no way makes it essential to being a good dps or even hit the dps checks required for fcob. It lets you hit above the dps check but that doesn't make it essential, it makes it a nice to have and makes u a successful dps.

For unlocking Master II books PbP is pretty much essential, unless you want to waste a lot of mats.

For my Alt, I waited until I had Carp, Arm and Alch 50 (cul 37 and rest 15) before unlocking the master II books, I was using the quest mainhand tool and easily got 3HQ before I made 5 NQ (for supra).

So I think I could have done them without Alch 50, but could not have without Byregot's and PbP. (though I agree PbP is not needed for "normal" 3*/4* crafts, but you need to unlock 4* first xD)

If people already have their Supra tool, Reclaim makes a lot of sence.

Never said it was a great idea but the topic was what was needed to reliably HQ 3 star and potentially 4 star. pBp wasn't an essential. Now when it comes to Master books ii, it will take more gil and probably twice the number of attempts but it can still be reliably done without pBp or reclaim.

Reliable is not the same as successful, reliable just means with some consistency. Being successful is not only linked to being profitable but to being popular and only having a few 50s in crafting would definitely not lead to trust in others to increase ones popularity as a crafter.

P.S. my original post said that Byrgot's was an as essential cross class skill and the only one i really consider to be essential to reliably 3/4 star crafts. Also reclaim making a lot of sense would make it at best a nice to have, not an essential skill to completing a craft reliably. By it's function, reclaim isn't completing a craft in the first place.

I am not arguing that to be a successful crafter, you need all of the cross class skills. In fact i leveled them all to 50 back in 2.0 days. Profit is important and popularity is built over time.

[scarebearz]

Never said it was a great idea but the topic was what was needed to reliably HQ 3 star and potentially 4 star. pBp wasn't an essential. Now when it comes to Master books ii, it will take more gil and probably twice the number of attempts but it can still be reliably done without pBp or reclaim.

Reliable is not the same as successful, reliable just means with some consistency. Being successful is not only linked to being profitable but to being popular and only having a few 50s in crafting would definitely not lead to trust in others to increase ones popularity as a crafter.

P.S. my original post said that Byrgot's was an as essential cross class skill and the only one i really consider to be essential to reliably 3/4 star crafts. Also reclaim making a lot of sense would make it at best a nice to have, not an essential skill to completing a craft reliably. By it's function, reclaim isn't completing a craft in the first place.

I was only talking about the tokens to be honest, as those need to be unlocked in the first place.

To reliably HQ those I do think PbP and Byregot's are essential. (along with sh2 and some l15 ones ofc)

For 3 and 4* normal crafts, as long as you have sh2 and l15 skills, i'm fairly sure I'd have a decent HQ rate without any l50 skills, if starting with all HQ mats. GS>AT with 10/11 stacks is quite effective if I remember correctly.

[scarebearz]

For 3 and 4* normal crafts, as long as you have sh2 and l15 skills, i'm fairly sure I'd have a decent HQ rate without any l50 skills, if starting with all HQ mats. GS>AT with 10/11 stacks is quite effective if I remember correctly.

Though I'd put this to the test and it was dead easy to HQ a 4* craft, using no level 50 skills, when starting with all HQ mats.

[ZephyrZ]

I was only talking about the tokens to be honest, as those need to be unlocked in the first place.

To reliably HQ those I do think PbP and Byregot's are essential. (along with sh2 and some l15 ones ofc)

For 3 and 4* normal crafts, as long as you have sh2 and l15 skills, i'm fairly sure I'd have a decent HQ rate without any l50 skills, if starting with all HQ mats. GS>AT with 10/11 stacks is quite effective if I remember correctly.

I just tested making the Reinforced Spruce Plywood HQ, got it on 2nd attempt. Used level 15 and 37 cross class skills. All progress came from RS & SS, finished was 11 stacks, GS, Good condition and BB. 87% HQ chance. The first attempt only failed because i wasn't sure how much progress i would get from Basic Synth and Standard Synth, i ran out of steps and didn't get enough progress to finish the synt. Overall took 7 progress steps with 453 craftmanship. It was harder to drop my craftmanship from 495 to 453 than to make an HQ token mat lol ^^

Though I'd put this to the test and it was dead easy to HQ a 4* craft, using no level 50 skills, when starting with all HQ mats.

Nice to see you tested it as well, i tested it myself first before i had posted it on the forum. I didn't use all hq mats, i had about 1200-1400 starting quality depending on the synth and i finished with GS + BB, but AT would have probably worked as well, can't say for sure.

Edit: All of this testing reminds me of day 4 star release. Makes me wonder what the craftsmanhip needed to do 3 star in 4 progress steps.

[Lemuria]

Though I'd put this to the test and it was dead easy to HQ a 4* craft, using no level 50 skills, when starting with all HQ mats.

That would depend on your actual stats though. If you've got some insanely well melded artisan gear and Lucis tools, you're going to have an easier time than someone who's at entry level for 4-star crafts. Even with full HQ materials, some struggle to get a HQ result on 4-star.

Also, does that lack of level 50 skills also mean no Careful Synthesis II? That means each synthesis either has a chance of failure, or a lower efficiency rate. Or both. Careful synthesis is only 90% efficiency, while basic and standard synthesis come with a 10% failure rate. Seems like a heavy burden to place yourself into. And no Piece by Piece to speed things up either.