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  1. #1
    Player
    Katlyna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    799
    Character
    Katrisa Ashe
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Leatherworker Lv 80
    Relatively speaking doing a single Byregot's with a huge Control stack is fundamentally more efficient than trying to chase/match the whistle stack. Likewise this means you only use Trained hand once (before building any other progress outside the 1/3). I suspect something along the lines of the above will work well if we can reliably burn the whistle stack to 3. If I find I'm still CP starved then I would likely do a similar rotation but drop Trained hand and do my progress up front with Careful Synthesis II/Rapid Synthesis. I'm still not entirely certain Trained hand is "efficient" since all it really does is grant a medium progress/quality gain at a high cost. Technically speaking 10 durability recover only costs around 27 CP with master's mend II (which I usually use twice in my old rotation). I will note that trained hands 80% success though may result in me keeping it (this is important).
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player
    Katlyna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
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    799
    Character
    Katrisa Ashe
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Leatherworker Lv 80
    If I find I can't reliably get Whistle stacks down to 3 then I will ditch whistling entirely, and go back to my old rotation while using the new Precise Touch during surplus CP phases to build stacks better. My concern is nearly all of my tests so far show whistling to be dangerous, and inefficient in comparison to a tightly tuned rotation! I'll let you all know more if I find some kind of break through. Also the posting limits in this board are too short sorry!
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player
    giantslayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    470
    Character
    Colette Pascal
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 70
    Thank you for posting, Katlyna. I suspected the new stuff outside precise touch wasn't that great.

    Can you fill us in a little on how some of these mechanics work? Info is hard to come by and the tool tip descriptions available online are pretty vague.

    1. Whistle is supposed to increase effectiveness when it is a multiple of 3. How much does it increase stuff by? Is leaving the whistle stack at a multiple of 3 for the bonus instead of cashing it in for CP a viable option?
    2. It says it increases progress when whistle stack reaches 0. How much does it increase by? Does it still do that if you zero out with nymeia's wheel?
    3. How much durability does nymeia's wheel restore?
    4. How does Innovative Touch work? Does it apply innovation bonus to just that one touch or does it give it for multiple steps?
    5. The lvl 60 skills: how much do they seem to increase the chance of good condition?
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Katlyna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    799
    Character
    Katrisa Ashe
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Leatherworker Lv 80
    1. How much does whistle 3 stacks increase skills by?
    It appears to increase the effectiveness by x1.5-2.0 of skills like Trained Hand. It's not clear to me what else it effects yet.

    2. It says it increases progress when whistle stack reaches 0. How much does it increase by? Does it still do that if you zero out with nymeia's wheel?
    It increases progress by 200-300% similar to a rapid synthesis.

    3. How much durability does nymeia's wheel restore?
    I need to test this more but it appears the lower the whistle stack the more durability restored.
    WS 11-9 - 10 durability
    WS 8-4 - 20 durability
    WS 3-1 - 30 durability

    4. How does Innovative Touch work? Does it apply innovation bonus to just that one touch or does it give it for multiple steps?
    It applies three turn Innovation as a buff, but only on success.

    5. The lvl60 skills: how much do they seem to increase the chance of good condition?
    I haven't tried the level 60 heart skills yet.
    (1)
    Last edited by Katlyna; 06-28-2015 at 08:35 AM.

  5. #5
    Player
    Katlyna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    799
    Character
    Katrisa Ashe
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Leatherworker Lv 80
    So given more testing today with better gear, I think my conclusion is the following:

    1) The old 4 star rotation is more stable (less range) and still able to be used.
    2) A specialist rotation involving Whistle, Satisfaction, Nymeia's Wheel, and maybe Trained Hand can push an 80 durability synth farther than our old rotation, BUT only when you have a very good ranged.
    3) Using the old rotation you can use Precise Touch to reduce range even further.
    4) Using the specialist rotation you will be too CP starved to safely use Precise touch much if at all.

    My post at the top of this page (41) is the most effective specialist rotation I've found +/- Trained Hand. I think Trained hand becomes a use only if you have surplus CP in the rotation. IMO you need to be able to fit in one Master Mend II and one Master Mend I in order to make full use of the specialist rotation. Getting one satisfaction procs and Nymeria's wheel +20 durability (8 stacks or lower) is the minimum needed to justify the use of whistling (vs CP costs).
    (1)
    Last edited by Katlyna; 06-28-2015 at 08:29 AM.

  6. #6
    Player
    giantslayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    470
    Character
    Colette Pascal
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 70
    Thanks for the info! Appears concerns about only having 3 viable crafts at a time have turned out to not be the case.

    From your rotation, I can gather that zeroing out the whistle with nymeia's wheel doesn't give a progress bump.
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player
    Katlyna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    799
    Character
    Katrisa Ashe
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Leatherworker Lv 80
    Yes using Nymeria's wheel doesn't trigger the (whistle 0) progress bump. Only letting the Wheel naturally expire to 0 results in the progress bump. Which is rather difficult to do with my current CP (upgraded accessories might make it more possible). But letting it expire doesn't seem to be a very good strategy for normal items anyway. I could see this being useful for maybe extremely difficult progression items assuming we could get enough base CP and use heart actions.

    I need to play around more with Heart actions. It seems to me they could be very useful when you experience bad rnged an no good/excellent. If you see this during the first half of your rotation you could use it during the second half to trigger your whistle. This is one of the biggest problems with whistling, if you don't get any good/excellent procs you are in a terrible position. With the normal rotation you can survive, but when whistling you have put yourself deficit 36 CP betting on future procs.
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    MrSmiley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    630
    Character
    Crysta Elizabeth
    World
    Lamia
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 90
    so, if I am going to just start getting into the crafting and pick 3 professions to start with, will the specialist system allow me to reliably do the endgame crafting?
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player
    Katlyna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    799
    Character
    Katrisa Ashe
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Leatherworker Lv 80
    Kind of. You would need the following skills (Must have) and you could HQ high end items... I'm not sure if you could survive the top tier but I suspect you could. If you were serious about crafting you would then want to progressively pick up the other skills as I noted:

    Must have:
    Alchemy(15) Tricks of the Trade
    Culinary(15) Hasty Touch
    Weaver(15) Careful Synthesis + Armorer(15) Rapid Synthesis

    Better to have:
    Culinary(37) Steady Hand II
    Weaver(50) Careful Synthesis II

    Best to have:
    Carpenter(50) Byregot's Blessing
    Alchemy(50) Comfort Zone

    ---

    As noted the rotation would be notably different with all specialist skills and missing some of the "old core". From my testing you would do this weird stack chasing with ~3 of the new bygots. It works but its crazy and unpredictable. And requires notable skill and understanding of crafting, CP starvation, miss tolerance, etc.
    (0)
    Last edited by Katlyna; 06-27-2015 at 04:11 PM.

  10. #10
    Player
    Brucedx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    3
    Character
    Dominique Colbernoux
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Leatherworker Lv 50
    I hit 55 Weaver and I don't know who to talk to to get the Weaver Soulstone using 1 of the 3 "Soul of the Crafter" plaques I received.
    (0)

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