Fix Sumnmoner

[FrejyaAthenes]

Poison isn't a real summoner skill? Rydia had Bio in FF4 and she could successfully poison every single boss in the game, in fact it was one of her strongest spells.

Just because it's different to XI or how more 'modern' FF summoners like Yuna battles doesn't mean it's invalid.

Rydia was also a Black Mage, like how Rosa was an Archer/White Mage hybrid.

[Wintersandman]

The problem is every other week their are new players trying Summoner and posting threads that the current Summoner isn't an Actual Summoner. I know this is an MMO but SE still should make Summoner stay true to its single player Final Fantasy Image. The Summoner has both an identity and image problem that should be addressed with the new battle system in Heavensward.

The Summoner shoul've used Elementalist as a base since it naturally flows into the Summoner lore.

We don't all want what you want. You are like a broken record player. You regurgitate the same thing over and over. There is no consistent lore on how summons are handled in Final Fantasy games. You just like the image Tactics and FFV had. I prefer FFVI and FFVII and how they handled their summons. We only know the current lore. There could easily be a Primal of Death.

[HexWeaver]

Rydia was also a Black Mage, like how Rosa was an Archer/White Mage hybrid.

Yeah she was, but BLM is already a stand alone job so of course that doesn't apply here. My point is people are acting as if a SMN using spells like bio is totally blasphemous toward the concept of an FF Summoner when in fact it is not.

[SoloWingMetatron]

I think people are missing the point. We are not saying we want ARR's SMN to be changed to its XI counterpart. We are just citing that as an example to show it is possible to have a more pet focused job in an MMO, and therefore possible to implement a more Egi focused play style to the ARR SMN.

Personally I enjoy playing the current SMN. However I can also admit to its faults that need changing. I do not expect to be able to summon a full Primal, nor should we (unless as an LB) but what I do think we need is for the SMN's new abilities to start becoming more focused on the Egi and commanding it. Which is something I bet SE will do anyways as a natural form of job progression. I would also like to see slightly larger Egi, but as long as the play style becomes more focused on the Egi then I'm happy enough with that.

[Wintersandman]

I would also like to see slightly larger Egi, but as long as the play style becomes more focused on the Egi than I'm happy enough with that.

The only danger is if it is too pet focused then we could miss out on potential dps. Pet dies and you are minimally contributing. The balance is real. But I would love a bigger EGI so it doesn't get lost in the chaos.

[AreeyaJaidee]

I think people are missing the point. We are not saying we want ARR\\'s SMN to be changed to its XI counterpart. We are just citing that as an example to show it is possible to have a more pet focused job in an MMO, and therefore possible to implement a more Egi focused play style to the ARR SMN.

Personally I enjoy playing the current SMN. However I can also admit to it\\'s faults that need changing. I do not expect to be able to summon a full Primal, nor should we (unless as an LB) but what I do think we need is for the SMN\\'s new abilities to start becoming more focused on the Egi and commanding it. Which is something I bet SE will do anyways as a natural form of job progression. I would also like to see slightly larger Egi, but as long as the play style becomes more focused on the Egi than I\\'m happy enough with that.

Exactly. Several people opposing a redesign have argued incoherently ridiculous troll things like "so you want ppl to watch a long cutscene while you summon Garuda?"

Others have said dumb things like: it won\\'t work any other way in an mmo herpa derpa...

That\\'s why the reference to XI is made because ffxi avatars were not over cumbersome, they were decent sized and some even had a solid design. Plus its a concept from an existing SE product, so with all these benefits of using it as a concept for xiv... What\\'s so hard for some ppl to grasp about this?

Seems like the majority of those opposing a change are more cynical than helpful... And what\\'s the use of that to anyone?

If you\\'re going to waste time posting WHY a smn redesign won\\'t work, be more creative than just "hurrr durr i haz Internet\\'s knowledge I can make all the hate flow... No smn chabge , fine as is derpa derpa...".

And stop using silly reasons like lore. The lore is open to interpretation. Some have said " doesn't make sense for us to do that as Scions..." < well then why did SE ALLOW us to summon them in the first place... Come on man get real

Most these people just seem like they wanna argue for the sake of argument... I love summoner, always have, and I know summoner well through out the franchise. I wanna enjoy playing it like its meant to be, and obviously the countless complaints on this are proof enough that others do too

[SoloWingMetatron]

The only danger is if it is too pet focused then we could miss out on potential dps. Pet dies and you are minimally contributing. The balance is real. But I would love a bigger EGI so it doesn't get lost in the chaos.

This is true, becoming too reliant on the Egi could become troublesome so a balance definitely needs to be maintained. But right now it often feels like the Egi fades into the background, so some new Egi focused abilities might help tie it into the play style more. I would also love to see some bigger Egi though for sure. Nothing too crazy, but at least something that is comparable to the size of our Chocobo companion.

[Dyvid]

Snip

So what do you say to people who actually enjoy playing SMN, "Sorry but your opinions don't matter even though it's your main?" I've made my suggestion to better improve SMN in it's current form without a complete redesign so no, we aren't just tossing random opposition for the sake of troll. We don't want the class we enjoy to be completely changed to something else just because a few people continuously say it doesn't feel smn-y enough. I hated summoner in FFXI because it was /37 WHM but I got over and played another job.

[SoloWingMetatron]

I hated summoner in FFXI because it was /37 WHM but I got over and played another job.

The XI SMN did indeed essentially become just a glorified WHM in most parties, though I think that has changed more in recent years. However it can't be denied that ARR's SMN definitely has some advantages over it's XI counterpart for sure. The fact you don't have to rest to constantly top up your MP pool is pretty great for a start and the fact we can have the Egi constantly summoned is awesome too. So credit where credit is due. Nevertheless I still hope for a slightly more Egi focused play style as we go Heavensward

[Eloah]

I think people are missing the point. We are not saying we want ARR's SMN to be changed to its XI counterpart. We are just citing that as an example to show it is possible to have a more pet focused job in an MMO, and therefore possible to implement a more Egi focused play style to the ARR SMN.

Personally I enjoy playing the current SMN. However I can also admit to its faults that need changing. I do not expect to be able to summon a full Primal, nor should we (unless as an LB) but what I do think we need is for the SMN's new abilities to start becoming more focused on the Egi and commanding it. Which is something I bet SE will do anyways as a natural form of job progression. I would also like to see slightly larger Egi, but as long as the play style becomes more focused on the Egi then I'm happy enough with that.

Exactly. Several people opposing a redesign have argued incoherently ridiculous troll things like "so you want ppl to watch a long cutscene while you summon Garuda?"

Others have said dumb things like: it won\\'t work any other way in an mmo herpa derpa...

That\\'s why the reference to XI is made because ffxi avatars were not over cumbersome, they were decent sized and some even had a solid design. Plus its a concept from an existing SE product, so with all these benefits of using it as a concept for xiv... What\\'s so hard for some ppl to grasp about this?

Seems like the majority of those opposing a change are more cynical than helpful... And what\\'s the use of that to anyone?

If you\\'re going to waste time posting WHY a smn redesign won\\'t work, be more creative than just "hurrr durr i haz Internet\\'s knowledge I can make all the hate flow... No smn chabge , fine as is derpa derpa...".

And stop using silly reasons like lore. The lore is open to interpretation. Some have said " doesn't make sense for us to do that as Scions..." < well then why did SE ALLOW us to summon them in the first place... Come on man get real

Most these people just seem like they wanna argue for the sake of argument... I love summoner, always have, and I know summoner well through out the franchise. I wanna enjoy playing it like its meant to be, and obviously the countless complaints on this are proof enough that others do too

These two post, in my opinion, have made the most sense so far. Personally, I never played XI so I only get the references through what I read, not actually by playing. But personally I don't think references should be made to XI, since the imagery brings up something else.

The current summoner has some "minor" issues, but nothing so bad that a complete overhaul is needed. And as I have said in other posts and threads, the best way to fix summoner would be to make it so that each pet is more viable in combat. This way you could use and egi in combat, and not have people complain that you are not using one over the others, ie Garuda or Ifrit. This would give the pet more focus, which is what people want, but wouldn't outright change the entire design of the job.