Fix Sumnmoner

[AreeyaJaidee]

I think people are missing the point. We are not saying we want ARR\\'s SMN to be changed to its XI counterpart. We are just citing that as an example to show it is possible to have a more pet focused job in an MMO, and therefore possible to implement a more Egi focused play style to the ARR SMN.

Personally I enjoy playing the current SMN. However I can also admit to it\\'s faults that need changing. I do not expect to be able to summon a full Primal, nor should we (unless as an LB) but what I do think we need is for the SMN\\'s new abilities to start becoming more focused on the Egi and commanding it. Which is something I bet SE will do anyways as a natural form of job progression. I would also like to see slightly larger Egi, but as long as the play style becomes more focused on the Egi than I\\'m happy enough with that.

Exactly. Several people opposing a redesign have argued incoherently ridiculous troll things like "so you want ppl to watch a long cutscene while you summon Garuda?"

Others have said dumb things like: it won\\'t work any other way in an mmo herpa derpa...

That\\'s why the reference to XI is made because ffxi avatars were not over cumbersome, they were decent sized and some even had a solid design. Plus its a concept from an existing SE product, so with all these benefits of using it as a concept for xiv... What\\'s so hard for some ppl to grasp about this?

Seems like the majority of those opposing a change are more cynical than helpful... And what\\'s the use of that to anyone?

If you\\'re going to waste time posting WHY a smn redesign won\\'t work, be more creative than just "hurrr durr i haz Internet\\'s knowledge I can make all the hate flow... No smn chabge , fine as is derpa derpa...".

And stop using silly reasons like lore. The lore is open to interpretation. Some have said " doesn't make sense for us to do that as Scions..." < well then why did SE ALLOW us to summon them in the first place... Come on man get real

Most these people just seem like they wanna argue for the sake of argument... I love summoner, always have, and I know summoner well through out the franchise. I wanna enjoy playing it like its meant to be, and obviously the countless complaints on this are proof enough that others do too

[Dyvid]

Snip

So what do you say to people who actually enjoy playing SMN, "Sorry but your opinions don't matter even though it's your main?" I've made my suggestion to better improve SMN in it's current form without a complete redesign so no, we aren't just tossing random opposition for the sake of troll. We don't want the class we enjoy to be completely changed to something else just because a few people continuously say it doesn't feel smn-y enough. I hated summoner in FFXI because it was /37 WHM but I got over and played another job.

[SoloWingMetatron]

I hated summoner in FFXI because it was /37 WHM but I got over and played another job.

The XI SMN did indeed essentially become just a glorified WHM in most parties, though I think that has changed more in recent years. However it can't be denied that ARR's SMN definitely has some advantages over it's XI counterpart for sure. The fact you don't have to rest to constantly top up your MP pool is pretty great for a start and the fact we can have the Egi constantly summoned is awesome too. So credit where credit is due. Nevertheless I still hope for a slightly more Egi focused play style as we go Heavensward

[Eloah]

I think people are missing the point. We are not saying we want ARR's SMN to be changed to its XI counterpart. We are just citing that as an example to show it is possible to have a more pet focused job in an MMO, and therefore possible to implement a more Egi focused play style to the ARR SMN.

Personally I enjoy playing the current SMN. However I can also admit to its faults that need changing. I do not expect to be able to summon a full Primal, nor should we (unless as an LB) but what I do think we need is for the SMN's new abilities to start becoming more focused on the Egi and commanding it. Which is something I bet SE will do anyways as a natural form of job progression. I would also like to see slightly larger Egi, but as long as the play style becomes more focused on the Egi then I'm happy enough with that.

Exactly. Several people opposing a redesign have argued incoherently ridiculous troll things like "so you want ppl to watch a long cutscene while you summon Garuda?"

Others have said dumb things like: it won\\'t work any other way in an mmo herpa derpa...

That\\'s why the reference to XI is made because ffxi avatars were not over cumbersome, they were decent sized and some even had a solid design. Plus its a concept from an existing SE product, so with all these benefits of using it as a concept for xiv... What\\'s so hard for some ppl to grasp about this?

Seems like the majority of those opposing a change are more cynical than helpful... And what\\'s the use of that to anyone?

If you\\'re going to waste time posting WHY a smn redesign won\\'t work, be more creative than just "hurrr durr i haz Internet\\'s knowledge I can make all the hate flow... No smn chabge , fine as is derpa derpa...".

And stop using silly reasons like lore. The lore is open to interpretation. Some have said " doesn't make sense for us to do that as Scions..." < well then why did SE ALLOW us to summon them in the first place... Come on man get real

Most these people just seem like they wanna argue for the sake of argument... I love summoner, always have, and I know summoner well through out the franchise. I wanna enjoy playing it like its meant to be, and obviously the countless complaints on this are proof enough that others do too

These two post, in my opinion, have made the most sense so far. Personally, I never played XI so I only get the references through what I read, not actually by playing. But personally I don't think references should be made to XI, since the imagery brings up something else.

The current summoner has some "minor" issues, but nothing so bad that a complete overhaul is needed. And as I have said in other posts and threads, the best way to fix summoner would be to make it so that each pet is more viable in combat. This way you could use and egi in combat, and not have people complain that you are not using one over the others, ie Garuda or Ifrit. This would give the pet more focus, which is what people want, but wouldn't outright change the entire design of the job.

[Delily]

Exactly. Several people opposing a redesign have argued incoherently ridiculous troll things like "so you want ppl to watch a long cutscene while you summon Garuda?"

Others have said dumb things like: it won\\'t work any other way in an mmo herpa derpa...

That\\'s why the reference to XI is made because ffxi avatars were not over cumbersome, they were decent sized and some even had a solid design. Plus its a concept from an existing SE product, so with all these benefits of using it as a concept for xiv... What\\'s so hard for some ppl to grasp about this?

Seems like the majority of those opposing a change are more cynical than helpful... And what\\'s the use of that to anyone?

If you\\'re going to waste time posting WHY a smn redesign won\\'t work, be more creative than just "hurrr durr i haz Internet\\'s knowledge I can make all the hate flow... No smn chabge , fine as is derpa derpa...".

And stop using silly reasons like lore. The lore is open to interpretation. Some have said " doesn't make sense for us to do that as Scions..." < well then why did SE ALLOW us to summon them in the first place... Come on man get real

Most these people just seem like they wanna argue for the sake of argument... I love summoner, always have, and I know summoner well through out the franchise. I wanna enjoy playing it like its meant to be, and obviously the countless complaints on this are proof enough that others do too

When the team went to design and add the summoner class, they had full access to all of FFXI's design. They were quite capable of The warlock's Demonology line in WoW has over timed evolved from being focused on pets to being focused on managing when the player switches into and out of Metamorphosis.you want ppl to watch a long cutscene while you summon Garuda?"

Others have said dumb things like: it won\\'t work any other way in an mmo herpa derpa...

That\\'s why the reference to XI is made because ffxi avatars were not over cumbersome, they were decent sized and some even had a solid design. Plus its a concept from an existing SE product, so with all these benefits of using it as a concept for xiv... What\\'s so hard for some ppl to grasp about this?

Seems like the majority of those opposing a change are more cynical than helpful... And what\\'s the use of that to anyone?

If you\\'re going to waste time posting WHY a smn redesign won\\'t work, be more creative than just "hurrr durr i haz Internet\\'s knowledge I can make all the hate flow... No smn chabge , fine as is derpa derpa...".

And stop using silly reasons like lore. The lore is open to interpretation. Some have said " doesn't make sense for us to do that as Scions..." < well then why did SE ALLOW us to summon them in the first place... Come on man get real

Most these people just seem like they wanna argue for the sake of argument... I love summoner, always have, and I know summoner well through out the franchise. I wanna enjoy playing it like its meant to be, and obviously the countless complaints on this are proof enough that others do too[/QUOTE]

When the team went to design and add the summoner class, they had full access to all of FFXI's design. They were quite capable of building a more pet focused summoner, yet, they didn't. Another point to think about. There are issues with pet focused classes in an MMO environment. They don't creep up in solo or group leveling play, but they do pop up in PvP and longer term raiding. Specifically, the issue is about the fact that when the pet is down, that's a huge gap in the player's abilities. In addition, pet commonly share the mob's ai system and are susceptible to exploits and bugs that other classes are not susceptible to.

To answer your question about FFXI, the design was not as solid as you remember. The vast majority of the time, the class was nothing more than a second rate healer with a large magic pool, that was passed over for groups unless you had Fenrir for the buffs. They had their niche moments and abilities (every class did), but in the end, they were no where what Akiza has repeatedly asked for. Again, you need to ask yourself why Yoshi and the others did not implement the class like FFXIV.

For lore purposes, the fact that we're Scions is not all that important. Our group association does not impact that fact that we have the Echo, are resistant to tempering, and absorb some of the primal's aetheric essence when we beat it. Those 2 factors are enough to qualify us for summons. The claim that Scions wouldn't do it is purely ideological. Minifilia and the other never made an indication for or against, so the assumption is they were fine with it.

Finally, "as it's meant to be" is meaningless. When you play a summoner in FFXIV, you are playing the summoner as it's meant to be, on the basis that Square Enix defines what a summoner is and that changes per game. You may not like this design of the class, and that's fine, and it does have problems, as all classes do. The problem is you want a redesign of the class, and it's never been indicated Square would to that.

[SoloWingMetatron]

The problem is you want a redesign of the class, and it's never been indicated Square would to that.

I think it's fair to say SE will not rework SMN from the ground up, coz frankly the SMN in it's current state isn't actually a broken job. It just needs a slight focus shift. People saying it should be reworked into an elemental burst DPS class are way off base. BLM already has the burst DPS corner covered so that's never going to change. SMN works perfectly fine using DoT based attacks so no need to change that. All it needs is a larger focus on Egi with maybe some elemental based DoTs and some tweaks to Enkindle. Some Egi based utility spells would be pretty cool too. Though I think anything support based would more likely go to SCH, since they will need some love to.

[Ryu_Hayabusaa]

Make the Summoner a hybrid Summoner/Elementalist specializing in Massive AoE Bursts with solid Single Target
Enkindle's 300s cool down is to long for the amount of damage it does and should be reduced to 120s

no. just take it out of the game.

[Sunako]

I wonder why players want some kind of big summons that would probably interfere ppl doing some mechanics and for that reason some players probably would not even want to play with summoners anymore. Those big creatures do not fit mmo game at all.

[SoloWingMetatron]

I wonder why players want some kind of big summons that would probably interfere ppl doing some mechanics and for that reason some players probably would not even want to play with summoners anymore. Those big creatures do not fit mmo game at all.

With foot work/dodging being a key feature in ARR game play it is understandable why a massive Summon could cause issues for other players, such as blocking enemy attack telegraphs and what not. However I think there is room to increase the size of the Egi a little without them negatively effecting game play.

[Akiza]

I wonder why players want some kind of big summons that would probably interfere ppl doing some mechanics and for that reason some players probably would not even want to play with summoners anymore. Those big creatures do not fit mmo game at all.

No one is asking for a Big Summon for a pet the Egis should still be the Permanent Pet but what I'm asking for is a spell that allow us to fuse with the Egi and Summon the Primal like Lady Iceheart. Maybe SE can call it ritual summon and give it to us when we get the Shiva Egi.

Limit Break 3 should be Grand Summon - Summoners summon the Primal and it instantly does its Signature Attack and leave without using Enkindle's cool down.