Has it always been like this or...?

[Bodicca]

Nice idea in theory. However that theory won't change new players being driven away from the game by the rather awful experience of having the final step of the Main Scenario of 2.0 ruined and generally being badmouthed. I've seen this happen. That's bad for the game.

Indeed. Who at SE thought this was a good idea??? Cut scenes at the end? Sure. Cut scenes at the beginning? Maybe. But cut scenes at the end of every little encounter and during some?? Really?

[KayoZ]

Why queue for a main scenario quest knowing full well that the party could, and likely will, consist of one or more newbies if you don't have the patience for them? The presence of a newbie gives you a hefty bonus of soldiery, which is intended to compensate for less experienced players and offer incentive to returning veterans to help new players.

Very true. "Hey thanks for doubling the rewards we're grinding for, but we're still going to ruin the experience for you because, F-U! I dont like wasting my time while im wasting time."

Its the pinnacle of collective "jerk" syndrome in this game.

As for some of you ive read here, the majority isnt always right. There are systems in government in place to counter a flat majority rule and there is a damned good reason for it. The very same reason/principle for why SE should take a stand for their new players and put something in place for them not be screwed by a mob of self-centered brats who would deny them the same luxury they likely enjoyed when they first went through it. At least for DF, where most new players turn to for completing such content. IMO, a penalty for the bonus rewards for skipping cutscenes would be ideal. New players save you time just by showing up yet some would still capitalize on that rather than return the favor.

[Firepower]

I believe that Yoshi knows the mistake he made with Praetorium and Castrum and that is why it has not been repeated since. The difference between running those 2 dungeons quickly and watching the cutscenes fully is somewhere around 20-30 minutes, depending on the speed that the player reads the scenes and continues.

Now as much as I believe that people have the right to watch the scenes they are all available in the inn at any town after the event so you can then watch at your own pace, making people stand around and do nothing for an extra 20-30 minutes while you watch all the scenes and then participate on the fight is a little bit selfish. So you make a choice, if you watch all the scenes you will likely get left behind and will miss out on the fights in the dungeon because everyone else doesn't want to waste time. If you skip the scenes you can participate but will have to watch them at the inn in the end.

The choice is yours and you should be ready to accept that if you wish to watch the cutscenes you should instruct others to leave you behind so that nobody waits for you and they can get on with what they want to do.

If you want both then that is what the party finder is for, but I advise that you should be thankful to the people who rush through the dungeons for you are likely to be waiting a LONG time to get a group together these days to do both of them dungeons where everyone wants to watch all the cutscenes.

[Duuude007]

IMO, a penalty for the bonus rewards for skipping cutscenes would be ideal. New players save you time just by showing up yet some would still capitalize on that rather than return the favor.

You really didn't think this through, did you. If you do this, the 'majority' currently in parties will effectively cease to exist and you will be forced to queue on your own again.

Return players don't go explicitly for the new player bonus; they go for the efficient ratio of time:reward. Forceably take that away and they will find something more efficient re:better to do. Which consequentially leaves newbies in the dust to fend for themselves, like it was pre DF.

This punishes new players a great deal, simply because a fraction of people feel like their wants should be 'entitlements', superior to the desires of the rest of the group.

Which, of course, they aren't.

If you want to reliably have your way, BECOME the majority. That is all that it takes.

Watches a CS because that's how they intended it to be then my account gets banned because people who ran it 5k times get pissy.

No, this would not be the case. If the person watching cs is the one unwilling to cooperate with what the rest of the group is doing, which is in fact disruptive, then it would be a valid candidate. The question I would have is- did that person ask if they could watch cutscenes at the start? what was the agreement the party as a whole made? Who decided it was not in their best interest to be a team player?

GMs arent' stupid, they consider discussions before they determine fault.

[Mugiawara]

Here is the most detailed version I could find on a cursory search of the forums.



As Camate inferred, the context in the topic is about loot agreements, but it is applicable to anything having to do with DF.

Watches a CS because that's how they intended it to be then my account gets banned because people who ran it 5k times get pissy.
But they tell us the reason why they get bonus's is because of the newbie and it was some incentive. Let's see...Newbie with horrible experience because of people or being kicked = Possible lost of player.
Angry tryhard vet's...they get mad and that's it, continue their way kicking people. The side who is losing is the newbies...SE is losing money.
Hahahaaaaaaaaaaa. Oh well, nothing you can do on this one but change how the system works.
They wasted time and effort. The only thing I can agree is they NEED to make these things solo, and have a helping hand of NPC's and dummy down the difficulty by a margin.
Make it literally...story only mode. There, no ones pissed off anymore.

[KayoZ]

You really didn't think this through, did you. If you do this, the 'majority' currently in parties will effectively cease to exist and you will be forced to queue on your own again.

So youre saying you queue up DF solely to take full advantage of new players who join? Do you immediately drop group if you dont see the "1 or more players..." message? There are already more efficient ways of getting tomes according to some posts yet that hasnt stopped anyone.

Maybe youre not understanding what I meant... I said bonus reward. As in you skip or start a boss while a new player is 'viewing cutscene' you forfeit benefits of having a new player join the group. As well you should forfeit it. Since you like the word so much, you are not "entitled" to the bonus rewards new players give you if all youre going to do is piss on their experience.

Regardless, rewards can be easily adjusted. They can change "efficiency" with a hot fix so...

[Gyson]

Poor attitudes of players aside, in my opinion the practice of scaling down the ilevel of gear in lower level dungeons should be present in every dungeon. I'm not sure why the developers are only interested in maintaining the integrity of the intended challenge only in pre-50 dungeons. I think players would lose a lot of their willingness to charge ahead without everyone else if they didn't outlevel the content by so much.

People were speed running CM back when ilvl90 was the highest you could go. Syncing it down to i90 will change nothing. Unless you mean syncing it down even further to i70 or something. In which case, veteran players will stop doing the story roulette altogether and just farm ST all day for tomes.

Of course 90 is too high. What I meant (in the case of these two storyline dungeons) is syncing players back down to a maximum of i-level 50 or 55. For each and every dungeon I'm sure the developers have an idea of the intended level of challenge - it's probably very close to the minimum i-level required to run the dungeon (or the i-level of the gear that drops within). Those scores serve as a decent guideline for what each dungeon should be syncing players down to. Why this is the norm for nearly all pre-50 content yet thrown out the window once players reach level 50 I'll never understand.

I think your prediction is off. Just as players continue to hit up pre-50 dungeons through low-level roulettes for tomes and other needs (despite the level syncing), they'd continue visiting these other dungeons as well. You'll never convince me that the developers intended for something like Garuda-Hard to be the joke-of-a-farm encounter that it is.

I also think nobody in the party should be able to prematurely end a cutscene if there's a first-timer on the run. That removes both the stress and burden off the new person and allows the content to be experienced as intended by the designers. Unfortunately, few would probably agree to these things because everyone wants their shinies yesterday (so they can then come here and complain about a lack of things to do).

If you do that, people will just straight up leave when they see a first timer, or they will mock and ridicule him even worse than now since they have no option to go ahead with the run.

I disagree that leaving will be the problem you suggest. Watching some cutscenes versus leaving and sitting through a duty-penalty plus another round of queue times? Either option requires time - at least by sticking with the former they get the dungeon done. And who is going to "mock and ridicule" a player for being new to a dungeon, particularly if it's SE making the cutscenes mandatory? It's out of the player's hands at that point (which is the whole point).

[dekal]

Hahahaaaaaaaaaaa. Oh well, nothing you can do on this one but change how the system works.
They wasted time and effort. The only thing I can agree is they NEED to make these things solo, and have a helping hand of NPC's and dummy down the difficulty by a margin.
Make it literally...story only mode. There, no ones pissed off anymore.

Thay idea remind me to SWTOR. They made a dummy to help any first timer doing a dungeon that is mandatory to make a group (main story). Only the person entering for the first time get the bonus and gears drop, and she/he can take all the time to fish that dungeon. By the second time you try to farm that place you are forced to queue, and the CS are minimum to none because you already watch the CS in story mode. They should do the same here. In that way everybody is happy.

[Socomlord]

Like others have said use party finder or get a good fc to help. Ppl can be toxic on here sadly.

[Duuude007]

So youre saying you queue up DF solely to take full advantage of new players who join? Do you immediately drop group if you dont see the "1 or more players..." message? There are already more efficient ways of getting tomes according to some posts yet that hasnt stopped anyone.

Again you assume it is always about tomes. People also farm it for the Gaius card. And no, I do not queue CM or Praet anymore due to how hostile new players can be. The time wasted in there doesn't make it worth my time, but I am not everybody, and stand by the point that WHOEVER agrees with the majority vote, be it story mode or speed run, is the only truly entitled segment of the party.

Maybe youre not understanding what I meant... I said bonus reward. As in you skip or start a boss while a new player is 'viewing cutscene' you forfeit benefits of having a new player join the group.

Maybe... you are not understanding what the true consequences would be... if you had your way.
So as you are inferring, every cutscene is forced upon players, even those who have seen them. How is this going to compel returning people to even consider making your queues more convenient, when the time-reward ratio is so unappetizing? The answer is, they will forfeit going at all. Indirectly punishing new players even more. With extra long queue times.

Granted, it won't affect those farming Gaius cards, so you will still have them queueing for you. And wanting speed runs. Why again are they less deserving of the experience they want? If they are the minority, great, story mode. If not, great, speed mode. Simple.