selling coil runs and primals

[Medicine]

Somebody sell me a T8 clear, I'll pay you in bubblegum. c:

[ShaneDawn]

What's the point if buying clears again? False prestige? It's just so frustrating when "X content doesn't matter because someone bought their clear out of it".

Selling runs is not against the Code of Conduct though. We could argue that anything of worth increases the RMT; whether it's high-end items like Pentamelded Crafted Gear and Fat Cats or end-game raids like Coils. There will be RMT for as long as there's people to buy it - it's an endless cycle. I think SE should just try to figure out means to boot out the gold sellers faster in the game.

[tocsin]

I will admit that I have bought runs before. I also earned all my gil legitimately. Did some of that gil likely come from RMT at some point in the currency chain? probably! do I care? Not really!

When it comes to crafting, gil is gil. If there were no RMT gold buyers, I suspect the market would likely crash from lack of circulation. Sometimes, gil buyers are the only thing keeping gil flowing from place to place. Am I inadvertently supporting RMT? yeah, probably. but I don't really care about the size of others Epeens, so RMT doesn't really affect me negatively.

My reasonings for buying clears? I cannot, and do not wish to, learn to clear the content myself. I spent months learning how to effectively make gil through crafting, and Enjoy that side of the game immensely. I DREAD using any of my battle classes, because I REALLY dislike the battle systems in this game. It just isn't enjoyable to me. But I still want to share in the storyline, and eventually get to access ishgard, and all the cool new crafting recipes within. So, I leverage something I'm good at (crafting) to supplement something I don't enjoy (battle).

Agreed.

I made it a guiding principle in my FC to have no shadow of RMT over our FC. As a result we have actually kicked two players for run selling. They were confused by the action, but in our view not only is it exploiting other players (in a directly exploitative manner that goes beyond standard economic activity such as buying/selling items through the MB), but it's also a key driver in giving other players an incentive to buy gil.

wow. Just, wow. I feel like those 2 players are better off for having been kicked. that's just... intolerant and unappealing. Do you guys kick 3 star or higher crafters for the same reasoning?

Edit: before people say "so you like spam?" I filter out my /tells, and make everyone who wants to contact me do so over mog mail. its a simple solution, and I haven't had an issue with it so far.

[wicked-one]

As for rmt I don't think you can place blame on the clear sellers since they're not the people buying gil.

But they willingly take the dirty money...

In real life terms, i also don´t want to get paid by a boss who earns his money by something illegal...

as i try to live by my moral standards, i have quite a bad feeling as well when i see ppl running around in fully melded 110 HQ Gear, but can´t get on the basic mechanic fights, or buying FCoB clears and loot for sums you clearly can´t have earned by that time they play.

sad but true, like the real world, eorzea is just what we make of it, ...

[Karen_Cerfrumos]

Agreed.

I made it a guiding principle in my FC to have no shadow of RMT over our FC. As a result we have actually kicked two players for run selling. They were confused by the action, but in our view not only is it exploiting other players (in a directly exploitative manner that goes beyond standard economic activity such as buying/selling items through the MB), but it's also a key driver in giving other players an incentive to buy gil.

So you kicked two actually good players from your FC out of some petty preconceptions.
All I can say, good job, they'll probably be better off without you.

[GenJoe]

What's the point if buying clears again? False prestige? It's just so frustrating when "X content doesn't matter because someone bought their clear out of it".

Selling runs is not against the Code of Conduct though. We could argue that anything of worth increases the RMT; whether it's high-end items like Pentamelded Crafted Gear and Fat Cats or end-game raids like Coils. There will be RMT for as long as there's people to buy it - it's an endless cycle. I think SE should just try to figure out means to boot out the gold sellers faster in the game.

Sometimes it's just to get through the content. T5 may be too unpopular on some servers to get a group for, and since the second coil is locked out, people often buy T5 to unlock it. Same goes for T9 and on as well depending on your server.

If SE wants to combat RMT, they should offer more services and items on their own Crysta market.. What was it, just 2 weeks ago that you can start gifting stuff from mog station? That's absurd.. Not to mention there's only like 5 items you can buy with Crysta.. If SE started to offer tradable items of value on their mog shop, we as the players will dictate the value of gil. and RMT will have little to stand on.

I.E. If SE introduced a very popular minion at 1000 crysta, then the playerbase will effectively judge how much gil 1000 crysta is worth, and the price of the minion and the $ price of gil will be matched. Since SE can produce infinite number of the said minion at no cost, and "RMT" is being taken care of between the players, gil selling companies will have a very hard time competing..


Of course, this would require some serious UI overhaul to actually allow people to trade things safely.. (1 million limit being lifted for example.. why is that limit in place anyway??) and make the mog shop items tradable..

[KisaiTenshi]

there are also a lot of legitimate players who buy clears.

These words do not belong in the same sentence. While I'm fairly sure there are people who have enough gil to buy a clear, it's not a "legitimate" clear in the sense that the player was carried, and in some cases had to actually turn over their account to such people to get it. That is no fun.

Any aspect of being carried makes me question why the person is playing the game at all. So "buying clears" just tells me that the person is wasting their money.

And yes it does encourage RMT, but I have a feeling that sellers wounld't touch gold buyers at all since Square Enix has nuked people's gil before.

[GenJoe]

Sometimes it's simply impossible to get a group together for a content that nobody wants to do.. All you can sell at that point is either your good will or gil. It's not being paid to carry you, rather more of a convenience fee.

T5 doesn't need a carry, with the gear we have it's easy peasy, but people just don't want to do T5.. So, if I have to pay a million or two (which only ends up being like 200-300k per person) I think it's a decent trade off.

I've personally never bought any runs because I'm not antsy to get to the end-game raids, but some people are.. To some, that's all they want to do once they hit lv 50.

[Kosmos992k]

So you kicked two actually good players from your FC out of some petty preconceptions.
All I can say, good job, they'll probably be better off without you.

I feel like those 2 players are better off for having been kicked. that's just... intolerant and unappealing. Do you guys kick 3 star or higher crafters for the same reasoning?

Since you know jack-shit about the situation, you would be far better off remaining silent instet they know they should not(and ad of proving yourself foolish. As for being better off, yes, my FC has beet better off, since we removed two sources of disruption from within.

Running a Free Company is not all cocktail parties and plaudits, sometimes people, even friends, do things they know they should not. That's when you have to put aside personal feelings and do what is right by everyone else. When people join a FC they accept the rules' and guidelines that FC lives by, if they break those, then there is a price to pay. No one, even long standing FC members who shaped those very rules and guidelines, is above the rules.

[tocsin]

Since you know jack-shit about the situation, you would be far better off remaining silent instead of proving yourself foolish. As for being better off, yes, my FC has beet better off, since we removed two sources of disruption from within.

Honestly, if you don't want people commenting on the situation, you shouldn't have brought it up.

Based on the information YOU gave us, and nothing else, it was a pretty mean-spirited thing to do. if there was more to the story, that would have changed that perception, you should have either brought it to the table, or left the entire situation out of it.

Based only on the information we have, two players were out trying to make an honest gil in the world (nothing illegal about selling runs), and they were kicked, because of witch hunting that they supported RMT by selling them. That's all the information we have. If there is more, we would be glad to hear it.

Running a Free Company is not all cocktail parties and plaudits, sometimes people, even friends, do things they know they should not. That's when you have to put aside personal feelings and do what is right by everyone else. When people join a FC they accept the rules' and guidelines that FC lives by, if they break those, then there is a price to pay. No one, even long standing FC members who shaped those very rules and guidelines, is above the rules.

I'm the leader of an FC myself; I quite understand where you are coming from. Was "Do not sell runs" in any of the fc guidelines? if it was, then I retract my statement.