selling coil runs and primals

[Aethaeryn]

It's very easy to make large sums of gil via crafting or spiritbonding. I've made almost 4 mil from a single spiritbonding session (5 sets of gear) in less than 2 hours and that's only one example.

Or you can be really unlucky and do dozens of spiritbond sets and NEVER see a tier4 other than elemental materia. I was doing 3-5 sets per day for weeks, and most days I barely broke even or lost gil with spiritbonding. Now prices have dropped so much on tier3s on my server that you are losing gil unless you land a good tier4 or farm all of the mats and craft stuff yourself. Maybe i70 spiritbonding is better these days, but not everyone has enough friends to spam t4 to make it worth the time investment nor wants to spend 20mins queueing for Castrum Meridianum and risk being kicked.

Spiritbonding is not some magical method of printing gil anymore. Maybe Cactuar server's tier3s are still worth tons of gil, though.

[marewa]

Or you can be really unlucky and do dozens of spiritbond sets and NEVER see a tier4 other than elemental materia. I was doing 3-5 sets per day for weeks, and most days I barely broke even or lost gil with spiritbonding. Now prices have dropped so much on tier3s on my server that you are losing gil unless you land a good tier4 or farm all of the mats and craft stuff yourself. Maybe i70 spiritbonding is better these days, but not everyone has enough friends to spam t4 to make it worth the time investment nor wants to spend 20mins queueing for Castrum Meridianum and risk being kicked.

Spiritbonding is not some magical method of printing gil anymore. Maybe Cactuar server's tier3s are still worth tons of gil, though.

Tell me more about your signature.

[Noahlimits]

Kill selling, the latest crafted gear and materia prices are the 3 major markets for RMT gil. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves. After all, those are the 3 primary things that actually cost any amount of gil. Given that 90% of a server population can't make that much gil from crafting or selling kills themselves, coming across players dropping 20mil, 30mil, 100mil on a kill, it's pretty clear where that gil has come from, even if I've not been told by those doing the selling, or friends of the buyer, that the gil was purchased.

LOL.

Just because you have a lot of gil doesn't mean you buy it. You're insulting every crafter, spirit bonder, gardener, map grinder and run seller out there.

[scarebearz]

LOL.

Just because you have a lot of gil doesn't mean you buy it. You're insulting every crafter, spirit bonder, gardener, map grinder and run seller out there.

He's not, he's simply saying that many of the people with a lot of gil have got it through RMT.

Most of the "rich" players, are rich because of selling to RMT's, either directly or indirect, there is just so muhc RNT gil floating about, it's impossible to avoid.

I.e. If craft something "high end" and sell it on mb, there is a good chance the gil it's bought with will come from RMT, same for those who got their gil from SB'ing and kill selling.

[Kosmos992k]

Kill selling, the latest crafted gear and materia prices are the 3 major markets for RMT gil. Anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

Agreed.

I made it a guiding principle in my FC to have no shadow of RMT over our FC. As a result we have actually kicked two players for run selling. They were confused by the action, but in our view not only is it exploiting other players (in a directly exploitative manner that goes beyond standard economic activity such as buying/selling items through the MB), but it's also a key driver in giving other players an incentive to buy gil.

With regard to kicking people out of my FC for this kind of thing, or any kind of cheating/RMT; all I can say is, I've done it before, and I surely will do it again if the need arises.

I should add that the reason we view run selling as exploitation of other players, is that our FC is based on respecting other players (FC member or not), being friendly and helping freely - just for the sake of helping. My FC leadership is unanimous in agreeing that selling runs (even selling quick queues to Ninja/Rogue when that was new) is not respecting other players, nor is it helping others for the sake of helping; it's taking advantage of another player for personal gain, when the help could be offered freely. It just does not fit the ethics or spirit of our FC.

LOL.

Just because you have a lot of gil doesn't mean you buy it. You're insulting every crafter, spirit bonder, gardener, map grinder and run seller out there.

I disagree, I am certain that there are plenty of players who do make their gil legitimately, however, there are players who buy runs, and they buy them because they can't (or do not want to) obtain their wins or gear any other way, it's the same reason they buy crafted gear and high tier materia (rather than spirit bonding it themself) - "aint nobody got time for that...stuff".

That's not to say that all transactions for crafted gear or materia are RMT related - clearly they are not. However consider that the RMT bots you can see are all wearing gear that was crafted/melded by someone. Sometimes it's their own craft-bots, but more often it's legitimate players who are 'unwittingly' selling items to RMT Bots. Combine that with the players who buy items with purchased gil, and you can see that actually a decent proportion of the gil in the pockets of high level crafters could be tainted - without out their knowledge or intent.

That doesn't mean that there is any ill intent from those crafters or spirit binders selling materia, they can't exactly govern who buys their gear, nor where the gil comes from. But simple logic and basic math quickly lead to the conclusion that a lot of the gil in circulation is comes through RMT, and is injected into the rest of the economy through the purchase of high ticket items and runs.

[Karen_Cerfrumos]

Agreed.

I made it a guiding principle in my FC to have no shadow of RMT over our FC. As a result we have actually kicked two players for run selling. They were confused by the action, but in our view not only is it exploiting other players (in a directly exploitative manner that goes beyond standard economic activity such as buying/selling items through the MB), but it's also a key driver in giving other players an incentive to buy gil.

So you kicked two actually good players from your FC out of some petty preconceptions.
All I can say, good job, they'll probably be better off without you.

[Kosmos992k]

So you kicked two actually good players from your FC out of some petty preconceptions.
All I can say, good job, they'll probably be better off without you.

I feel like those 2 players are better off for having been kicked. that's just... intolerant and unappealing. Do you guys kick 3 star or higher crafters for the same reasoning?

Since you know jack-shit about the situation, you would be far better off remaining silent instet they know they should not(and ad of proving yourself foolish. As for being better off, yes, my FC has beet better off, since we removed two sources of disruption from within.

Running a Free Company is not all cocktail parties and plaudits, sometimes people, even friends, do things they know they should not. That's when you have to put aside personal feelings and do what is right by everyone else. When people join a FC they accept the rules' and guidelines that FC lives by, if they break those, then there is a price to pay. No one, even long standing FC members who shaped those very rules and guidelines, is above the rules.

[tocsin]

Since you know jack-shit about the situation, you would be far better off remaining silent instead of proving yourself foolish. As for being better off, yes, my FC has beet better off, since we removed two sources of disruption from within.

Honestly, if you don't want people commenting on the situation, you shouldn't have brought it up.

Based on the information YOU gave us, and nothing else, it was a pretty mean-spirited thing to do. if there was more to the story, that would have changed that perception, you should have either brought it to the table, or left the entire situation out of it.

Based only on the information we have, two players were out trying to make an honest gil in the world (nothing illegal about selling runs), and they were kicked, because of witch hunting that they supported RMT by selling them. That's all the information we have. If there is more, we would be glad to hear it.

Running a Free Company is not all cocktail parties and plaudits, sometimes people, even friends, do things they know they should not. That's when you have to put aside personal feelings and do what is right by everyone else. When people join a FC they accept the rules' and guidelines that FC lives by, if they break those, then there is a price to pay. No one, even long standing FC members who shaped those very rules and guidelines, is above the rules.

I'm the leader of an FC myself; I quite understand where you are coming from. Was "Do not sell runs" in any of the fc guidelines? if it was, then I retract my statement.

[Ashkendor]

Given that 90% of a server population can't make that much gil from crafting or selling kills themselves, coming across players dropping 20mil, 30mil, 100mil on a kill, it's pretty clear where that gil has come from, even if I've not been told by those doing the selling, or friends of the buyer, that the gil was purchased.

I'm pretty sure you pulled that 90% figure straight out of your hind end. It's not hard to make the 500k-1mil that most people charge for the EX primal clears. Hell, Savage Might IV materia are 400k+ on my server. Spiritbond and get a single one of those and you're most of the way there. There's plenty of ways to make gil that don't involve RMT. People that don't have the gil either 1) don't know how to make it, 2) don't have the time to make it, or 3) don't have the inclination to make it. It's as simple as that. This game is easy to make money in.

Maybe i70 spiritbonding is better these days, but not everyone has enough friends to spam t4 to make it worth the time investment

What? Solo queue T4. Even as a DPS it's almost never more than a 5 minute wait.

I get 50-60% tier IV from i70 items.

[Aethaeryn]

What? Solo queue T4. Even as a DPS it's almost never more than a 5 minute wait.

I get 50-60% tier IV from i70 items.

You're also on a different data center. Solo queues are generally much higher than 5 minutes for T4 for me unless it's nexus/zeta light bonus or I'm tank or healer. It's also way more capital investment if you have to buy the gear or any of the mats, and not everyone can craft their own i70 sets. I have had really awful luck with i70 spiritbonding too, so this is still not magic print gil button like a lot of people claim.

Not sure what prices are like on Sargatanas, but usually mining and botany for clusters and a few other odds and ends (with unmelded fresh 50 gear) is much higher gil per hour than spiritbonding unless you are really lucky with tier4s.

Anyway, we're off topic. D: Actually responding to OP: Anything that requires a lot of currency on an MMO will result in more RMT. People who sell wins are not the ones responsible for RMT, however. :/