8 man "raids" = final content?

[Whiston]

We are definitely missing the obvious solution guys.

OP wants to see 24 man raids be the end game content.
The simple solution is to nerf FCoB and drop it's gear level to i120.
THEN we double the HP of WoD bosses, and remove it from duty finder so you have to preform a 24 man alliance. Demon armor is now i130. Please enjoy.

[Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn]

Dynamis related stuff

Dynamis was also after 75 grueling levels of the game punishing you if you didn't learn how every iota of your job worked. You can't have the levelling game be what it is right now AND THEN suddenly go 'I hope all this unchallenging content where the punishment is a small fee in gil taught you every single niche thing about your abilities and when to use them. Because now you're going to need to etch out a niche in the already existing endgame player set, find 50+ other 'not bad players' and pray that they don't already have groups they run with. (There's also a reason FFXI turned it's back on that model. And you can cite that it's dying today all you'd like, but it probably would've been dead without a pulse years sooner if not for what Abyssea and Adoulin did.)

Oh, and hey, you're going to need to learn who all the other raiders on your server are, because if you try to schedule when they do, guess what you're gonna get? A pissing match that takes place over the course of an hour. Oh, and the best part about this system? If you're a guild leader it's great because you'll be rolling in all that Ancient Currency and have your Relic in... oh, let's say a month, probably more like half a year if you're lucky given FFXI time sinks. But if you're not part of the core six people responsible for the raid? Well, maybe they'll toss some gil your way with all the ancient currency nobody needs.

It was a system that favored corrupt guild leaders who could swindle people into running with them, and there was more than one case of this. But finding 7 other people out of the plethora of people that you play well with and are good is not actually mind numbingly time consuming.

[SpookyGhost]

Dynamis was also after 75 grueling levels of the game punishing you if you didn't learn how every iota of your job worked.

Really good point, and one I've noticed since way early on in XIV. Leveling in this game doesn't even prepare you for Coil, let alone something as complicated as Dynamis.

[Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn]

Which in itself is fine enough. I went from pre-50 through HL Dungeons and Primals into Coil. I learned as I went and fell on my face more than once. But I did play (and still do play) FFXI, so I hold a certain regard for learning what your skills do and experimenting to get the most out of them.

Hopefully Heavensward will be a bit harder and force you to learn a bit more. These last couple of MSQ trials have me hoping that they mean it when they say that ARR was meant to reintroduce and teach, and that HW will be made with the baseline ARR set in mind.

[Woggers]

Here's a fun fact: Labyrinth of the Ancients was supposed to be a lot harder, but it got toned down because the devs realized having 24 random people with no prior knowledge of each other or how everyone plays would be a plain mess. It's not that Square CAN'T make challenging 24 man raid content, it's them not WANTING to do it due to them believing it just won't work because of the general player. We already seen the massive troll fests the current 24 man raids have and the commonplace that is rage quitting.

True, but an easy fix to this is to not have the 24 man raid in the DF. Have it like how Coil was. When first released yoy'll need to be in a certain area with your full 24 man alliance. The next patch open it up to out of area DF queue. Still need the full 24 man alliance from your server. Just don't have to be in the same area. Then after next patch introduce echo, nerf it and allow cross server DF.

[Nekrage]

If you are designing endgame content to be done with pugs, you already did something wrong.

DF is a nice feature for anything EXCEPT endgame content.

[MythToken]

If you want 25 man raids go play WoW. The way the battle system is set up, it does not scale for 24 man content in meaningful way. 8 man is more fun.

[Nekrage]

If you want 25 man raids go play WoW. The way the battle system is set up, it does not scale for 24 man content in meaningful way. 8 man is more fun.

If WoW wasnt casual baby crap I would. And this game seems to be suffering from the same mistakes WoW made regarding their hardcore player base.

I have no problem leaving this game, when I go a couple hundred players come with me. I lead a VERY large guild and this game doesn't support guilds PERIOD.

8 players is not a guild.

[Callinon]

If WoW wasnt casual baby crap I would. And this game seems to be suffering from the same mistakes WoW made regarding their hardcore player base.

I have no problem leaving this game, when I go a couple hundred players come with me. I lead a VERY large guild and this game doesn't support guilds PERIOD.

8 players is not a guild.

Can I have your stuff?

[Wournsfeik_Untawhasyn]

The devs are not gonna drop the way that they've designed things because it's been working for them just fine. They're not about to 'see the folly of their ways' because you threaten to take 'hundreds of players with you'.

You haven't even started on that content yet. Maybe you'll cleave through it with no problem. You'll have your G1-10 running and taking care of business no problem, down T5, T9,. and finally T13 in weeks after hitting 50. If you do, then you can start complaining. As it stands right now you're getting frustrated over something you haven't even experienced yet.

Why not take your massive guild and go start up a Private WoW server or FFXI server, because that sounds like what you want.