Dedicated Thread for Patch 2.55 Story Discussion/Spoilers

[Balipu]

Your troll opinion is duly noted. Please read the threads replies previous to your ''could someone please tell me what the plotholes are??? you havent yet???''.
It is there you will find your answer.


Also, on the topic of logical connections:

-You ask what the plotholes are. Second part of that post specifies no plotholes have been mentioned.
- However plotholes (valid and invalid plotholes) have been mentioned before.
- Implies that your question is not an honest one.
- Your current post only replies to a gip, and not to the actual arguments in a post.

logical conclusion: you are a troll.
result: ''Your troll opinion is duly noted''


Logic.

Yes well if you edit back the list of plot holes into a message I replied to ten minutes after the reply, I can't take them into account can I? But since you so nicely replied, I will attempt the same.

The plotholes here is that all of them died when they really shouldnt have. Source? We never really saw any of them die on screen. I wish at least one of them to die, but like I said we never saw anything.
Portculis could have been dropped from the other side. Overdrives could have been used in a none self-destructive way. Well the army got passed the dropped portcullis anyway and caught up to us even with Papalymo and Yda holding the line, so I don't think simply dropping the portcullis would have worked. By overdrive I guess you mean limit breaks. I didn't see Yda suffer any damage due to doing that AOE final heaven that frankly, the player has no acces to.
Who ever heard of someone in the history of gaming using a holy when they werent immune to its effects themselves? Where did you read that Y'shtola used holy? It was never said. Besides it wasn't the spell itself that killed her, if she is dead, but the stones that fell due to the explosion.
Ah yes and one more: Hydaelyn suddenly talking to Minfilia. Hydaelyn tends to warn people beforehand, not afterwards. Well first off we don't know what enabled her to speak again. Maybe she was still gagged by something untill that specific moment. Second, we cannot know what she said to Minfilia. It seems less of a warning than a command based on Minfilia's reaction.
The plotholes here are: you track down one of your favored Crystal Braves, yet easily believe the words of a suspected Brave who just happened to be there. He was on patroll and well you didn't have any particular suspects at that point.
You just happen to get a personal invite from the Sultana. Odd, considering she should have expected you to be at the feast. Actually, she should have been there herself. So you think it is wrong not to suspect that the Sultana is up to no good. I know I said she likely planned her suicide, but you have to be really paranoid to suspect Nanamo of anything evil.
Also your character just sits there passively as she 'dies'. Well storyline deaths cannot be averted by ingame mechanics. If that were so, all Elder Scrolls characters would just eat rocks to stay alive. Aerith says hello.

When the brass blades etc come, it makes no sense to just come with them. Weve had betrayals, we fought the empire and what not. We can see where this is going, and with his timing he was likely responsible for all of it. Sure, but are you willing to just cut down the most well connected person in Eorzea and run out of the bedchamber of the dead Sultana with corpses following your trail?
What, you say we had no weapon? Plothole. Why on earth would I not have my weapon with me. All the other leaders had their weapons at the feast. Well yes, that is true. But we were escorted into the bedchamber of the Sultana. I can totally imagine a need to remove your weapons when you enter. And at the very least, the guards would have disarmed you after placing you into custody. I personally think the guards leaving you armed would have been a plot hole.
Besides, you might recall Yshtola using holy without using her wand. Im sure that as an actual white mage instead of a conjurer (which is Yshtolas class, when did she learn holy exactly?I guess they made her a white mage suddenly, ah another plothole) I could have done the same. Well NPC-s don't always adher to the class system. You know like Merlwyb dual wielding pistols, which is frankly impossible and will remain such even during 3.0 Y'shtola is classified as a conjurer, but she always had abilities that adventurers like us do not have. In 1.0 she deflected bullets with her hands, conjured up shields and created duplicates of herself.

Anything else?

[Gilthas]

You are one of the few people in here that doesnt actually bother to use spoiler tags to cover important facts. I think that says enough about your opinion on plotholes.

Like someone else already mentioned, the topic title already says that there are spoilers inside, so adding spoiler tags to our posts is simply redundant.

As for your "plot-holes" they aren't plot-holes, just things you don't like:

Two Scions and 1 portculis is a better barrier than 1 portculis and no Scions.
You can't prove that the non self-destructive overdrive would be more powerful.
Your theory that people that use Holy in games are immune to its effects is simply ridiculous. I haven't done any PvP in FFXIV but I'm sure that WHMs can damage other WHMs with Holy.
Hydaelyn talking to Minfilia is not a plothole and we don't even know what she was told.

At best you could say that your character was naive to easily trust in the Brave, at the time you had no idea how big the conspiracy was so there was no reason to distrust every single Brave of the 1st and 3rd.
Your character getting a personal invite from the Sultanna isn't a plot hole at all. Did you even watch the cutscene? Nanamo had reasons to meet with your character, even if you choose to believe that they sucked.
What exactly could our character do to save her in the few seconds it took for her to die? They're not immune to going into shock and freezing.

Attacking the authorities at the scene of the crime right after it was commited in your presence isn't exactly the best way to prove your innocence.
Your character not having his weapon with him is an explanation given by people here, not the game, so that's also not a plothole.
The Scions having special powers isn't exactly something new.

I guess in the end, maybe we don't have the same definition of what a plot-hole is. To me a plot-hole is something impossible happening. Of all the "plot-holes" you mentioned, the best case you have is your character trusting that Brave, but even that has a reasonable explanation. It's not impossible, it's not even implausible.

If you dedicated as much energy in finding a reasonable explanation as you do coming up with plot-holes you probably wouldn't have so much problems with the plot.

[/B]
Portculis could have been dropped from the other side. Overdrives could have been used in a none self-destructive way. [B]Well the army got passed the dropped portcullis anyway and caught up to us even with Papalymo and Yda holding the line, so I don't think simply dropping the portcullis would have worked.

We don't know if they got past the portculis or entered from a different point.

[Sinroth]

I was yelling at the screen when that happened.

Seriously I was yelling "KILL THEM RAUBAHN! KILL THEM!!"

Yeah, same!

Spoiler!!!

That little WORM got what he asked for. Seriously! Did you think you could do this and make everyone else look like the evil do'ers and not pay for it? /spit on Teledji's corpse.

[Freyah]

Wasn't impressed at all

I hated the fact that our characters couldnt fight back, couldnt help Raubahn and even worse got reduced to running around like something out of a benny hill sketch. Hope Nanamo still lives and the rest of the scions. Was nice seeing Brennan again. Can't say I liked the asspull of Alphinaud being saved by his sister. Couldve at least let our characters kill any crystal braves we encounter in the world.

Would've been more appropriate https://youtu.be/x5sQL7q_IOI

[Zacky]

They will all come back, with unic style and clothing. 1.0 gear was lame.

[ColdestHeaven]

Ok, so, here is my theory.

First off: Telediji was innocent. An insufferable prick, but still innocent. What about his plans on Omega Weapon, though? Was it only his idea, or were the Monetarist as a whole in that plan?

Secondly: his death was probably plotted by Lolorito, because Telediji's ambition didn't sit well with him. Remember the discussion regarding the Doman refugees back in 2.2? They were at odds, and it is possible that Telediji's plans were not good for Lolorito. I wouldn't find it hard to imagine rivalry even within the Syndicate. So what Lolorito did, was letting Telediji continue his schemes while somehow letting the Scions notice his treachery. It WAS strange that we immediately noticed (literally after one patch) that he was up to something, and in one dialogue it was mentioned that Telediji showed the "care of a drunk pissing in the wind" (if I remember correctly the quote). That was, most probably, the moment when we should have noticed something was amiss. It is possible it was, in fact, Lolorito's doing all along to frame Telediji.

Lastly: Lolorito's expression at the end, which is what prompted me to write this on the forum in the first place. Together with Tataru's face at the end of her short quest-line, I just can't understand what's up with that. The dialogue makes it seem like he didn't want to put this plan into motion, rather than him being frustrated by something which didn't go well. So there are three options, if I am right: 1) Lolorito didn't want to actually kill Telediji, but Raubahn's rampage (caused by Telediji's own attitude and the circumstances) made him a casualty. 2) His intentions did not include the death of Nanamo, whom could still have been useful to him - so Telediji is now a hindrance and a possible problem, so he had to get rid of him. 3) Whatever the hand-maiden was ordered to do and then report, it was not shown on-screen and is not related - so it's back to square one.

Actually, you know what? No. Scrap all that. New theory.

Tataru was in cahoots with Lolorito and planned to become the new Sultana.
Lolorito started willingly considering all that he had to gain, but later he regretted being manipulated like this. Yet he had no choice when the plan was at that stage - his only choice was to talk to the Warrior of Light, but Telediji (madly in love with Tataru) used him/her to frame him/her into Nanamo's murder. So yes, he's no longer innocent in this theory - and he lied to Raubahn to avoid exposing Tataru.
Now, now, I know what y'all are saying. "But Ilberd said he did that!". Well guess what. Ilberd is Tataru's bodyguard (also madly in love with her). So yeah, he did that, while co-operating with Telediji to move the Brass Blades. All the Crystal Braves were always under Telediji's paycheck and Ilberd's control, too, so they had the power to make all of this almost effortlessly.

She was never striving to become more useful and trying other classes, she actually wanted to scheme without others checking on her. When we did, she was sidetracking us. Come on, she ain't that stupid. Or weak. She feigned being attacked by a Morbol (not madly in love with her btw) while she was mining, when she could have just used the pick to kill it and avoid the AoE. It would have taken a while, but she had the gear to survive this. And she easily used "Place" to make it seem like that Carbuncle ran away from the mouse. Guys, seriously: she had a pink-dyed Cashmere robe. That's a level freaking 50. How could she have -ever- lost against a lousy mouse.

The Scions were, for Tataru, something to hide behind while the gears started turning. Now that Ilberd and Telediji used the fabled Warrior of Light as well, the rest of the Scions became useless: their death was just necessary to tie possible loose ends and all.

Why did she suggest going to Ishgard? Well, that's an easy one: Ilberd and Lolorito (this one still finding a way out of this ofc) need time to make preparations for her, they need a specific political situation - they can't just crown everyone now, can they. Why with Alphinaud and the Warrior of Light? Obvious: she will hide again behind them, claiming to have no choice (Warrior of light+Alphinaud > Poor Tataru) and that she would have been imprisoned anyway considering her relationship with the Scions.

But THEN she would turn against us, and with the help of Ilberd and Lolorito she' bring us to justice. Ul'dah would understand that it was not the Scions' fault as a whole, only the Alphinaud's and the Warrior of Light's, and since there is no heir or relative of royal blood and that she would be seen as a savior/avenger, she should be the new Sultana.

It all makes sense. You know it does.

You'll see.

[jazo]

Finished yesterday and...

while I am happy for all the changes and cut scenes and effort on delivering a "woah" anime-ish trying to be serious conclusion I have rolled eyes and was thinking, ok, everyone is saying the ending is great, when does the greatness start?

I really hope our character to take the advice of "learn to say no" seriously! our chars can have a couple of quest on hold when we are going to a frigging party that we earned after so much DF fail!!! but well, that's plot for you I can accept that our characters have some kind of addiction do do minor quests

Then... we are mute in all cut scenes, no word on, "well, there was the maid that served the wine, I am not the only suspect you see?"

ok, plot, our char was shocked by witnessing a loli die, ok...

Then we had a hint that *insert name of guy that loved loli* is going to teach us Berserker or something analog job later when he and we return to Ala Mihgo or something, I liked that, what I didn't like was that no one, not even the super fiends of him of other nations, you know, the ones that fought with him when meteor fell? tried to help him and just ran, so plot could tell who really killed loli with no one besides him and the scions notice...

Then the saint seiya run...
Scions: "you keep running, we stay here!!!"
You: Hum... you know, we could just run, tank me all the dudes and I will flare their arse off... I frigging killed a dragon the size this place!
Scions: nope, we better close the door, with us on the other side and you keep running, we can do this
You: but...
Scions: hush! remember you dont talk!
You: oh yeah, plot

Dunno, I I had like 12 year old and was new to anime plots, I would be all "whoa"

Sill, I wish our character to do more other than "run, you are the chosen one!"

Also, hope Tataru gets to be a powerhouse, I was really happy when she was trying to be arcanist, I was sad that they more or less kept the status quo with her

Thats another anime trope rith there, they dont seem to move things much from characters as they become icons, like superheroes in comics, change it too much and people gets mad thats why there are a lot of reebots, anime tend to keep the status quo with their chatactes, sure, plot progress but is very very rare to see a character change besides of power level or, being alive.

Well, I derailed my rant, then again I enjoyed and apreciate the ending, feelt good, but wih the pieces placed I think stuff could have beed better

[Wildsprite]

Actually, you know what? No. Scrap all that. New theory.

Tataru was in cahoots with Lolorito and planned to become the new Sultana.
Lolorito started willingly considering all that he had to gain, but later he regretted being manipulated like this. Yet he had no choice when the plan was at that stage - his only choice was to talk to the Warrior of Light, but Telediji (madly in love with Tataru) used him/her to frame him/her into Nanamo's murder. So yes, he's no longer innocent in this theory - and he lied to Raubahn to avoid exposing Tataru.
Now, now, I know what y'all are saying. "But Ilberd said he did that!". Well guess what. Ilberd is Tataru's bodyguard (also madly in love with her). So yeah, he did that, while co-operating with Telediji to move the Brass Blades. All the Crystal Braves were always under Telediji's paycheck and Ilberd's control, too, so they had the power to make all of this almost effortlessly.

She was never striving to become more useful and trying other classes, she actually wanted to scheme without others checking on her. When we did, she was sidetracking us. Come on, she ain't that stupid. Or weak. She feigned being attacked by a Morbol (not madly in love with her btw) while she was mining, when she could have just used the pick to kill it and avoid the AoE. It would have taken a while, but she had the gear to survive this. And she easily used "Place" to make it seem like that Carbuncle ran away from the mouse. Guys, seriously: she had a pink-dyed Cashmere robe. That's a level freaking 50. How could she have -ever- lost against a lousy mouse.

The Scions were, for Tataru, something to hide behind while the gears started turning. Now that Ilberd and Telediji used the fabled Warrior of Light as well, the rest of the Scions became useless: their death was just necessary to tie possible loose ends and all.

Why did she suggest going to Ishgard? Well, that's an easy one: Ilberd and Lolorito (this one still finding a way out of this ofc) need time to make preparations for her, they need a specific political situation - they can't just crown everyone now, can they. Why with Alphinaud and the Warrior of Light? Obvious: she will hide again behind them, claiming to have no choice (Warrior of light+Alphinaud > Poor Tataru) and that she would have been imprisoned anyway considering her relationship with the Scions.

But THEN she would turn against us, and with the help of Ilberd and Lolorito she' bring us to justice. Ul'dah would understand that it was not the Scions' fault as a whole, only the Alphinaud's and the Warrior of Light's, and since there is no heir or relative of royal blood and that she would be seen as a savior/avenger, she should be the new Sultana.

It all makes sense. You know it does.

You'll see.

I don't think that's quite what happened but I like your idea, they should hire you

[ColorOfSakura]

People keep complaining that we have no agency as a character but that's technically the point.

Midgardsormr, Gerolt, Rowena, Gaius, and Ysayle/Iceheart mock us for this on more than one occasion. We're a "puppet devoid of actual choice" because we follow the Scions and Hydaelyn's orders. They keep trying to make us think for ourselves - to act on our own accord.

I think this entire scenario is a perfect example of that. We're given no actual agency on purpose. We're characterized not to fight back because we think of the Scions and Hydaelyn and what they'd want us to do. We don't fight back because we know that it'd start an all out war. It'd give the Monetarists exactly what they'd want or need. Lolorito and Teledji didn't know we were effectively a puppet for Minfilia, they just assumed we were a warrior/hero who would fight to protect the people dear to them. But when our friends demanded that we, the Warrior of Light, stand down and run - of course we do it, without question.

Midgardsormr mocks us for this following our escape from Ul'dah as well. He reiterates that yet again we just "followed orders". Yeah - we followed every single order given to us in the plotline for this story. We did everything that was asked of us without questioning it, continuing to do what we've done since 2.0 because it has suited us well for so long. The Scions wouldn't lead us astray. Alphinaud wouldn't lead us astray. Momodi wouldn't lead us astray. Hydaelyn may not be here, but if we were treading dangerous ground, surely she'd let us know. They've all kept us on the straight and narrow. They have all the answers we don't have. We're a hero because of them.

Of course we'd follow those orders. What could possibly go wrong?

And I think that was the entire point of the storyline. At some point you have to be your own person because blindly following the orders of everyone around us may have given us glory once, but when it came right down to it - it also led us right into the jaws of a trap that cost us absolutely everything.

/10characters

[Genz]

Lastly: Lolorito's expression at the end, which is what prompted me to write this on the forum in the first place. Together with Tataru's face at the end of her short quest-line, I just can't understand what's up with that. The dialogue makes it seem like he didn't want to put this plan into motion, rather than him being frustrated by something which didn't go well. So there are three options, if I am right: 1) Lolorito didn't want to actually kill Telediji, but Raubahn's rampage (caused by Telediji's own attitude and the circumstances) made him a casualty. 2) His intentions did not include the death of Nanamo, whom could still have been useful to him - so Telediji is now a hindrance and a possible problem, so he had to get rid of him. 3) Whatever the hand-maiden was ordered to do and then report, it was not shown on-screen and is not related - so it's back to square one.

or 4)

Tataru is Nanamo. Lolorito is angry because he discovered he poisoned a fake Nanamo.

---

People keep complaining that we have no agency as a character but that's technically the point.

"It's not bad, it's artistic."

First thing to do when trying to express something, is showing multiple faces of it.
In FF13, first we have to follow corridors, then we can explore Pulse.
In Portal, first we have to follow the experiment, then we wander elsewhere.
In FF14, first the player avatar does nothing, then he still does nothing.