Our passive characters and why the 2.55 story fails (BIG SPOILERS) (rant warning)

[ElieDavion]

just to add my 2 cents first of i had antidotes on me so i could have possibly cured that poison also im a blm i dont need a weapon to cast do i? (sure the spells would be weaker but nonetheless effective for exsample sleep or freeze)

[Vaer]

My major problem was...

The ESCAPE scene. OK I can buy being captured.

Think it was just an excuse to make them seem useful. The player character(s) always slay the big baddies and save everyone so I guess they figured they needed to make the scions seem useful so they thought up some kind of "go out in a blaze of glory" scene for each of them and threw it in there at the end. Not that they're actually dead or anything. (doubt it)

This entire collection of scenes reminds me of when the Waking Sands gets attacked and afterwards how the player character slowly rebuilds the Scions with Alphinaud and Cid. Same kind of feeling. I guess this time it will just be in Ishgard instead.

__________

[Lucke]

Here are things I've noticed:
* The weapon thing. Anyone in the military/police are trained to never EVER surrender your weapon. In my case, I had a priceless relic on my person, there is NO WAY I would allow myself to be disarmed. DRAWING your weapon is not allowed in that hall. You may still possess a weapon. The GC leaders all have their weapons on their person. I would think the Sultana of all people would allow us to keep our weapons.

* The actual coup. I would have enjoyed a battle with Raubahn. We may end up getting overwhelmed in which case Raubahn tells us to leave while he makes his final stand.

* The evac. This is just insulting. We run away like pansies after fighting primals, Garleans, dragons, and whatever else and we flee. I was hoping we would have a huge battle while we were evacuating with the Scions being party members. I wouldn't actually mind an escort type mission by protected Minfilia as we fight our way out.

* And something I just thought of while reading a previous post. Where in the world is the Sultanasworn? You know, the bodyguards to the Sultana. They weren't even in that hall or in the Sultana's chambers. If they were paid off, just wow.

* That lalafell we meet, Pipin I think? I get the feeling he's actually the Sultana's brother and the heir to the throne. Nanamo never actually had the opportunity to abdicate the throne before, you know. It's still a Sultanate for now.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

just to add my 2 cents first of i had antidotes on me so i could have possibly cured that poison also im a blm i dont need a weapon to cast do i? (sure the spells would be weaker but nonetheless effective for exsample sleep or freeze)

In that case, I'll pull the ol "Why can't we use a Phoenix Down on Areith?" card.

[kyuven]

This entire collection of scenes reminds me of when the Waking Sands gets attacked and afterwards how the player character slowly rebuilds the Scions with Alphinaud and Cid. Same kind of feeling. I guess this time it will just be in Ishgard instead.

Big difference, though: We weren't there for that.

[Risvertasashi]

It's not bad to have a problem with that, really. And I understand it unless you consider the following:

All fair points. re: FTBs - My point was just that the "fade to black" isn't entirely a blank slate. It does imply certain things, especially if there aren't any cues to counter said default implications.

I'm not entirely sure they couldn't have given us some sort of 'fight and be forced to retreat' kind of deal for the Raubahn scene, though.

But I'll add once again. Overall I actually liked the story and cutscenes. It's fun to discuss and provide feedback, but don't take anything I'm saying to mean 'I HATE 2.55 MAIN STORY!'

I think, ultimately, most of our problems/criticisms come back to that age old problem in RPG gaming... we want to have more control over our actions. Agency, as it were. The technology isn't here yet and may not be for a long time, but there are tricks that can be used to give the illusion and make some things a bit more palatable.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

blah

I think that might stem more from JRPGs than WRPGs, but that's just me guessing. JRPGs, well a lot of them, push the story onto you and you don't have any choice other than following it. You could call them glorified books.

[Elim]

I hate the main scenario quests here. Always have, and probably always will. Almost everytime more main scenario is added I cry on the inside and drag my feet to the quest. HATE doing. HATE IT HATE. HATE. >.< I find most of the dialog to be extremely wordy, so much so that I fall asleep if I ever try to sit through a scene. Although I love almost everything else in this game.

And I hate almost everything in SWTOR, but I love their "main scenario" quests. I've been playing it again, just to level characters. One of the reasons I like it is, of course, because your character has a personalty. You can choose good, neutral or bad. As a imperial player most of the dialog options are witty, to the point, and humorous.

I understand the reason SE makes our characters passive. I just don't like it.

[Fyce]

Okay. Great. Nice plot device. So when are we going to do that?

3.x.
It was obvious since the Guardian of the Lake cutscene.

5 guards plus a non-combatant = endless flow? Club them over the head and get away!

You don't even know how many guards were out of the room, nor if "Smirking Dummy" himfelf didn't come to get you once you're tied. Also, if you are innocent, then why should you run away, hitting guards in the face?... and again, YOU WERE WEAPONLESS AND YOUR POWERS ARE SEALED. Damnit. You're a Hero, not a Super Hero.

Besides, You are also ignoring my whole point about being the best political move to avoid putting the Scions in a delicate position.
The Warrior of Light attacking one of the most influent monetarist leader would be completly stupid.

Teledi is openly corrupt and hostile. It's obvious things are as bad as they'll get and once again, Thancred does exactly that by attacking the guards.

Thancred is a former thug/assassin, he knows his sh*t and that things going down. Also, you are not playing Thancred. He can do what he wants.

He knew enough to not walk alone into an obvious trap.

- "XXX wants to tell you something important."
- "Oh my! In the middle of the Ul'dah most guarded place, surely a coup d'etat is going on and this is an obvious trap!"

Come on...

But Raubahn is the only one who acts by removing Teledji, clearly guilty of treason and regicide from the picture and moving on to handle the other traitors. He would've succeeded with support, instead Senna and Merlwyb flee and the Scions freeze up.

The Warrior of Light and the Scions are not really well known for going in rampage mode to do justice themselves in a city they have nothing to do with.
But yeah, you might be right, killing one of the monetarists leader who is accusing you of doing a coup d'etat is the best way to deal with the accusation and make you look innocent.

You're kidding right? The dummy took Raubahn by surprise, because he was his best friend, and even with one arm he matched Ilberd blow for blow.

I think we didn't see the same cutscene. Even if Raubahn was doing a rampage, he got his ass kicked.
I mean, they even managed to get him alive and put him in jail.

So? Minfilia can hide while the WoL, Raubahn, and several accomplished mages and fighters go to town. Ilberd would've been easily dispatched 2 v 1 and the rest could've escaped WITH Raubahn and be in a far better position. You are pumping up Ilberd, a man who couldn't defeat a 1 armed man he just betrayed in anything resembling a short time a massive amount to prove your paper thin point.

Yes, killing the whole Ul'dah's guard was clearly the best move the Scions could have done to prove their innocence.

Murdering everyone doesn't solve everything.

Pay attention. The guy from the player intro takes you to the Shroud border where Cid picks you up.

https://youtu.be/fkGj8G0ZU-Q?t=3m37s
Sure that looks like a forest to me. Even the "Central Thanalan" shows how deep in the shroud we are.

You really think an army from a foreign nation can openly search a sovereign territory? Also, open war with two or potentially 3 other city-states? You think the monetarists are that stupid?

If you taking position by hiding the murderers of the leaders of Ul'dah, then yes, you expose yourself to be treated as enemies of Ul'dah. Since all nation as a lot of stuff to deal with (primals, imperials...) I don't really think they can afford to do that.
So yeah, if Gridana or Limsa would openly hide the suspects, the Monetarists would very likely declare war.

She also LOOKS LIKE A DRAGON. During a dragon invasion. Derp.

With wings and stuff? I though she was more humanoid that anything, but okay. What you said.

[TruebladeNuke]

I did have separate responses initially ready for the two who responded, but instead, I'm just going to sit over here sipping my lemonade because quite frankly, I only see this thread going up in flames. No... actually, it already has.

I'll just wait for the inevitable thread lock/deletion. And be reminded as to why I typically avoid posting on official forums because of crap like this. Seriously, stuff like this is why I prefer to just simply play the game instead of trying to discuss anything with people. The drastic different viewpoints and caustic nature of humanity just makes me weep for humanity in general.

When the hell are people finally going to start respecting each other?