Thread: Our passive characters and why the 2.55 story fails (BIG SPOILERS) (rant warning)

Originally Posted by Fyce

You are a Warrior of Light. Not a politician, not a war leader.
You are just here to fight bad stuff and keep Cristal Mom happy. Being naive, clueless and overly passive is a sign of purity of heart.

That's a bit why Midgardsormr seal your connection with Hydaelyn. He wants you to stop being a Pawn of Light and start doing stuff by yourself.

Okay. Great. Nice plot device. So when are we going to do that?

Regarding your character not doing anything while being arrested... well, first, you were weaponless. Then, your powers are still sealed by Midgardsormr. So, no, you are not going to fight an endless flow of guards with your fists only (even if you are a Monk. Punching metal armors barehands hurt a lot).

5 guards plus a non-combatant = endless flow? Club them over the head and get away!

Besides, your character had no clue what was going on. Risking a diplomatic incident by attacking Teledji and compromising the position of the Scions by doing that would have been a terrible move. Not resisting your arrest was actually the best political move to do.

Teledi is openly corrupt and hostile. It's obvious things are as bad as they'll get and once again, Thancred does exactly that by attacking the guards.

Yes, and he admits that himself. He was way to naive and wasn't careful enough.
But, let's be fair here, there's no way he would have known how big this rebelion was. Nobody would.

He knew enough to not walk alone into an obvious trap.

Speak with others NPC in the world. Especially guild masters and GC leaders. Nobody believes this coup d'etat to be your doing. Besides, Raubahn and Nanamo already knew that Teledji was up to bad things and wanted to take the place of the Sultana by any means. Teledji just showed up and basically said "'sup, I killed her"... Maybe you call that "having a functioning brain", but it was actually very obvious.
Everyone knew that a conspiracy was happening. They just didn't know it would happen that way and that fast, with such magnitude.

But Raubahn is the only one who acts by removing Teledji, clearly guilty of treason and regicide from the picture and moving on to handle the other traitors. He would've succeeded with support, instead Senna and Merlwyb flee and the Scions freeze up.

"Smirking Dummy" was completly dominating one of the best 1v1 fighter of this world, Raubahn, who was on a complete rampage, kicking stone columns like it was nothing. I think you underestimate the true power of "Smirking Dummy". Y'shtola barely managed to block the blow that killed a lot of people.
Again, regarding your character, you were still weaponless and with your power sealed.

You're kidding right? The dummy took Raubahn by surprise, because he was his best friend, and even with one arm he matched Ilberd blow for blow.

Besides, even if you, the Scions and Raubahn were maybe able to deal with "Smirking Dummy", you would have been surrounded by an endless wave of guards and Cristal Brave. Good job, everyone is now in jail or dead.
Also, since Minfillia can't do sh*t, protecting her (and you) was a priority. You really can't complain about the Scions escape.

So? Minfilia can hide while the WoL, Raubahn, and several accomplished mages and fighters go to town. Ilberd would've been easily dispatched 2 v 1 and the rest could've escaped WITH Raubahn and be in a far better position. You are pumping up Ilberd, a man who couldn't defeat a 1 armed man he just betrayed in anything resembling a short time a massive amount to prove your paper thin point.

Cid comes directly to save you outside Ul'dah, not the Shroud.

Pay attention. The guy from the player intro takes you to the Shroud border where Cid picks you up.

That aside, again, speak to NPCs. You'll see that, for example, Limsa Lominsa is only safe because the Admiral will not allow Ul'dah to actively search for you in the city... But you are still considered a fugitive and a Cristal Brave traitor. Limsa, nor Gridania can prevent undercover searches for you... besides, if you would hide in a capital city like that, you would draw a risk of war between said city and Ul'dah, which is now under control of the Monetarists.
The Coertas is the most "neutral" place for you to hide, and the safest (considering the climate and the bad reputation of Ishgard to cooperate).

You really think an army from a foreign nation can openly search a sovereign territory? Also, open war with two or potentially 3 other city-states? You think the monetarists are that stupid?

She's a freaking ninja! Besides, we don't even know how the Au Ra story will fit in.

She also LOOKS LIKE A DRAGON. During a dragon invasion. Derp.

My major problem was...

The ESCAPE scene. OK I can buy being captured. It's stupid but OK.
I can buy no one stepping in to help. It's actually pragmatic since there ARE innocents in the room.
I CANNOT buy all the scions needing to do that "hold the line!" thing. We're stronger than they are. That's why they turn to us to kill Primals. To kill MASSIVE UBER DRAGONS like the one we JUST KILLED. You know...the REASON we're there in the first place.
WE should be the ones holding the line so THEY can escape. It's even the heroic thing to do.
Not even getting into the fact that we're basically immortal while they aren't.

Originally Posted by kyuven

My major problem was...

The ESCAPE scene. OK I can buy being captured. It's stupid but OK.
I can buy no one stepping in to help. It's actually pragmatic since there ARE innocents in the room.
I CANNOT buy all the scions needing to do that "hold the line!" thing. We're stronger than they are. That's why they turn to us to kill Primals. To kill MASSIVE UBER DRAGONS like the one we JUST KILLED. You know...the REASON we're there in the first place.
WE should be the ones holding the line so THEY can escape. It's even the heroic thing to do.
Not even getting into the fact that we're basically immortal while they aren't.

This is what bugged me most when iw as going through, but I agree with pretty much all of the complaints so far

Originally Posted by kyuven

My major problem was...

The ESCAPE scene. OK I can buy being captured.

Think it was just an excuse to make them seem useful. The player character(s) always slay the big baddies and save everyone so I guess they figured they needed to make the scions seem useful so they thought up some kind of "go out in a blaze of glory" scene for each of them and threw it in there at the end. Not that they're actually dead or anything. (doubt it)

This entire collection of scenes reminds me of when the Waking Sands gets attacked and afterwards how the player character slowly rebuilds the Scions with Alphinaud and Cid. Same kind of feeling. I guess this time it will just be in Ishgard instead.

__________

Originally Posted by Vaer

This entire collection of scenes reminds me of when the Waking Sands gets attacked and afterwards how the player character slowly rebuilds the Scions with Alphinaud and Cid. Same kind of feeling. I guess this time it will just be in Ishgard instead.

Big difference, though: We weren't there for that.

/because10characters...

Even if the NPC tell me why i can still walk around Ul'dah it still feels weird. I'm sure every Brass Blade and Crystal Brave isn't on your side. Any time I go Ul'dah now it doesn't feel right after the cutscene, it can still be immersion breaking a bit. I liked the fact that they tell you oh you can't go to the Rising Stone, This was good because it shows the impacts of the events. I can understand that blocking of Ul'dah for those who have done the quest could be a bad idea but at least change the environment or something.

Also, I HATE how passive we are. This is why I like Star Wars The Old Republic. We made a character and they gave us choices. Even though some choices i may not say there is always generally a alternative to what I would say. If you want to be passive then pick your ... option and be silent and boring. Most people here don't like how their characters are passive based on how they reacted on the recent quest. The whole weapon thing is just a cheap trick on SE part, they only did it for plot convenience i mean they didn't even show your weapon be given or anything before the cutscene. Suddenly right after the carriage you have it back... WHERE DID IT COME FROM!!? It makes no sense and you know it. We didn't pick it up, no one said they grabbed our weapon and we didn't find it. Just shows that part made no sense whatsoever. Saying they took the weapon before the private meeting is a weak excuse sadly. Don't try cover up SE poor story telling there because it makes no sense.

If they are going to put our character in such a situation GIVE US CHOICES. It's not that hard if people like being passive let them be with the ... option. Then give a more aggressive type option and perhaps another one which isn't as aggressive if other games can do it SE can do it, actually they have done it before during the 2.0 story with Gaius and at the start of the game =_=. This shows they can do it but some reason they abandoned it. Overall the cutscene was nice but the way how they made your character weak there was just bad im sorry. Also if they did take it there is no way they have a clone of my Longinus Zeta. I'm sure the Lalafell or Alphinaud didn't give it to me because they didn't even mention they had it in the first place. If they said they found it when they were coming back I would let it slide but they didn't so it still makes no sense.

just to add my 2 cents first of i had antidotes on me so i could have possibly cured that poison also im a blm i dont need a weapon to cast do i? (sure the spells would be weaker but nonetheless effective for exsample sleep or freeze)

Here are things I've noticed:
* The weapon thing. Anyone in the military/police are trained to never EVER surrender your weapon. In my case, I had a priceless relic on my person, there is NO WAY I would allow myself to be disarmed. DRAWING your weapon is not allowed in that hall. You may still possess a weapon. The GC leaders all have their weapons on their person. I would think the Sultana of all people would allow us to keep our weapons.

* The actual coup. I would have enjoyed a battle with Raubahn. We may end up getting overwhelmed in which case Raubahn tells us to leave while he makes his final stand.

* The evac. This is just insulting. We run away like pansies after fighting primals, Garleans, dragons, and whatever else and we flee. I was hoping we would have a huge battle while we were evacuating with the Scions being party members. I wouldn't actually mind an escort type mission by protected Minfilia as we fight our way out.

* And something I just thought of while reading a previous post. Where in the world is the Sultanasworn? You know, the bodyguards to the Sultana. They weren't even in that hall or in the Sultana's chambers. If they were paid off, just wow.

* That lalafell we meet, Pipin I think? I get the feeling he's actually the Sultana's brother and the heir to the throne. Nanamo never actually had the opportunity to abdicate the throne before, you know. It's still a Sultanate for now.