Our passive characters and why the 2.55 story fails (BIG SPOILERS) (rant warning)

**Valkyrie_Lenneth** · 04-02-2015 02:13 AM

Remember, you lost your "Warrior of Light" powers when you fought Midgardsormr, and you also have no weapon when you are with the sultana. The fight on the Steps of Faith was mostly done with cannons and dragonkillers.

It may be a plot device, making it so you can't retaliate, but its within the lore of the story up to this point.

**Charisma** · 04-02-2015 05:08 AM

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Remember, you lost your "Warrior of Light" powers when you fought Midgardsormr, and you also have no weapon when you are with the sultana.

I dont know how its called in the english version, but midgardsormr didnt took the power to fight... Also where was our weapon then? we were captured and suddenly we have it after escaping?

And about this war stuff... its a REVOLUTION... so no state would have to fear a war if they interrupt, especially not just because of the brass blades and crystal braves, which seem to be the only fighting forces of the circle. Also they could have just captured / killed everyone in the room, and no one outside ever would have really noticed anything, but we just escape, with like only 5 enemy forces in the room, while escaping,a team of 2 people of the scions take on several brass blades..

I liked the scenario itself, but it was doomed to not make perfectly sense, at this point of the game, because the WOL seems to be the only one who can kill the primals, he could have probly solo handed everyone in the room.

**Aeyis** · 04-02-2015 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Remember, you lost your "Warrior of Light" powers when you fought Midgardsormr, and you also have no weapon when you are with the sultana. The fight on the Steps of Faith was mostly done with cannons and dragonkillers.

It may be a plot device, making it so you can't retaliate, but its within the lore of the story up to this point.

Also technicalities.

One does not simply lose a tie to Hydaelyn. Your probably forgetting that the Midgardsormr is a guardian of Hydaelyn as well.
That said its not exactly like you need godly powers to fight off some guards.

Especially after the story drives home how inexperience these Crystal Braves are, since you need to help them out at every turn.

Besides, I remember a certain Ascian also laughing at the lack of the Blessing of Light. Well the last laugh wasnt on him that day.

**Cynthis** · 04-03-2015 11:58 PM

Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Remember, you lost your "Warrior of Light" powers when you fought Midgardsormr, and you also have no weapon when you are with the sultana. The fight on the Steps of Faith was mostly done with cannons and dragonkillers.

It may be a plot device, making it so you can't retaliate, but its within the lore of the story up to this point.

I've read this as an explanation and I could buy it IF we couldn't still kill primals/coil/dungeons in the same way we always had. Clearly Hydealyns influence wasn't so much in making us stronger since we can do the same things without it.

As far as pushing us to Ishgard I also didn't think that worked. If Gridania and Limsa are now in the alliance with the monetarists and are perfectly ok with that then I lost all respect for them and I would think that after coming to their aid numerous times they would have no problems granting us sanctuary.

**Risvertasashi** · 04-02-2015 02:18 AM

I'll just add one thing.

Commonly in RPGs, even quite a few single player ones... the player-controlled character is intentionally shallow. The idea is to give a blank slate that you can project yourself onto, and MMOs allowing customization at all, and especially deep customization, goes particularly well with that.

It does present some difficulties. More active protagonists with well defined and 'deep' personalities have their own flair, but can interfere with players projecting themselves onto the character they play as (which has the potential be a bigger problem than you might think). One way to sort of run around this is to have allies commonly with you that have their own personality. Then, even if you hate them or simply don't relate well, at least it's not the virtual you.

Would be nice were it not so, but the less vague they make the plot, the more specific details they have to build on. Actual input choices are difficult (though not impossible). But they can show an animation of your character talking, and let your imagination fill in the blanks for how you would talk (which is far more limitless than having a few multiple choice options and maybe 3 voice options for your character).

...It is pretty frustrating in situations like this, though, where we really want to act while our character just sits by...

**Velia** · 04-02-2015 02:24 AM

As I've said I'm used to the passivity.
However, it's been justified usually because "SCENE HAPPENS" and then > you get to act, usually in a fight.
Here however they chose to give way entirely to the narrative, which is fine. But if they're going to involve the player in such a heavy narrative keeping us so passive just doesn't work.

Options would be fine. As would actions dependant on current job. DRG jumps out the window. WHM stuns with Holy. PLD shield bashes some fools. NIN vanishes. That sort of thing. Can't be too much work and would look very satisfying.

**Risvertasashi** · 04-02-2015 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by Velia

As I've said I'm used to the passivity.
However, it's been justified usually because "SCENE HAPPENS" and then > you get to act, usually in a fight.
Here however they chose to give way entirely to the narrative, which is fine. But if they're going to involve the player in such a heavy narrative keeping us so passive just doesn't work.

Options would be fine. As would actions dependant on current job. DRG jumps out the window. WHM stuns with Holy. PLD shield bashes some fools. Ninja vanishes. That sort of thing. Can't be too much work and would look very satisfying.

...Yeah ok, I have to agree. It was like watching, well, a movie, but we're used to controlling our characters. Such is the trend of modern MMOs but it was really frustrating.

**Shiki_Lockhart** · 04-02-2015 02:26 AM

Dont forget to hide the text too or expect thread being deleted as they say here.

Or better the thread is on very top and pinned so why make a new thread with spoilers not hidden and instead of that posting in the correct thread?

**Takfloyd** · 04-02-2015 02:27 AM

Some of your points, mostly pertaining to the passive protagonist, are very valid. I wish they'd made the PC a real character from the start, with adjustable personality and voice, like in many western RPGs.

Some of them are not though. For example, Nanamo's poisoning was supposed to be obvious to the viewer, which they achieved through the use of camera angles. It wasn't obvious to the characters though, and the same thing goes for Alphinaud. HE hadn't heard about the conspirators in the Braves yet and he had his head too far up his own ass to notice himself - do not mix up information available to the characters with that available to the player. His arrogant self-righteousness backfiring on him spectacularly was always in the cards as the central part of his character arc and necessary to turn him into a likable character in the future - I was just surprised it took this long.

Finally, the finale would also have been better if they just inserted a playable battle against Ilberd in there - feels a bit wrong to have the climax happen without a boss fight.

**Risvertasashi** · 04-02-2015 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by Takfloyd

Some of your points, mostly pertaining to the passive protagonist, are very valid. I wish they'd made the PC a real character from the start, with adjustable personality and voice, like in many western RPGs.

While it's an alternative, the problem with that is you still have to make many of the decisions for the protagonist like we see here, but then you risk alienating people that feel like none of the voices/dialogue choices (because that's the only way they can change personality) don't match.

I think the real problem is they went with the silent protagonist approach, but then took the reigns out of our hands. Take for example Half-Life... it did this with great effect, but the game has almost no cutscenes at all. It has scripted cutscene-like sequences, but you're pretty much always in control of your character. And when you/Freeman did get captured, you went down fighting, which I think more people would have found palatable here (see OP's Thancred example)...

On the other hand, at least Square did try to incorporate the PC as a plot element...

Thread: Our passive characters and why the 2.55 story fails (BIG SPOILERS) (rant warning)

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