The relic weapon quest is OBSCENELY boring...

[FranSeara]

The category of "difficult to get weapons" is already catered for by raids.[/QUOTE]

Your last statment is the problem with this WHOLE entire game.

[Tiggy]

Your last statment is the problem with this WHOLE entire game.

And its a completely different argument than this thread is trying to make. This is the casual weapon where you just need time. The 135 from T13 is the difficult to obtain through fighting. You clearly want something more in the middle. It doesn't mean there is something wrong with the other two approaches it just means more options are required that fit different styles. Variety is the problem. Not that a good piece of gear drops from raiding. Focus your message cause it seems scattered every other post.

[FranSeara]

Your last statment is the problem with this WHOLE entire game.

And its a completely different argument than this thread is trying to make. This is the casual weapon where you just need time. The 135 from T13 is the difficult to obtain through fighting. You clearly want something more in the middle. It doesn't mean there is something wrong with the other two approaches it just means more options are required that fit different styles. Variety is the problem. Not that a good piece of gear drops from raiding. Focus your message cause it seems scattered every other post.[/QUOTE]

I don't think my Posts are scattered. You just NEVER agree with anything I say. Which is ONE more big problem with this game. The player base always seems tore in two. "The main point is the quest is boring and broken and needs to be redesigned." End of Statement

[Tiggy]

The player base always seems tore in two. "The main point is the quest is boring and broken and needs to be redesigned." End of Statement

That may have something to do with the fact there is only the casual and raid options in the game. Like I explicitly said in my previous post. With more options in the middle it wouldn't be as segregated thus largely fixing your perceived issues. The problem isn't the players being stratified. The problem is the game forces you to make a decision about what type of content you want to engage in and then you're in either one group or the other. You don't see the forest for the trees anymore when you sit around blaming the players for simply responding the content the game actually has. More options, like I said previously with a middle game option, would fix this. Stop trying to blame players for something the game clearly pushes them to do and we might start agreeing more often. You're so concerned with being right that you don't even see the truth in what people are telling you. I literally just pointed out that there are two different styles and then you go to blame the players for being split that way. Do you not see what's right in front of you?

Simply a raid option existing isn't a problem and neither is a farming casual option existing a problem. The problem is there is nothing in between so your forced to an extreme by default.

[RichardButte]

And its a completely different argument than this thread is trying to make. This is the casual weapon where you just need time.

Know what else was fairly casual? The Hildebrand storyline, and yet it managed to not be skull-crushingly boring.

Imagine the Hildebrand storyline, minus the interesting characters, the funny jokes and whatnot. What's left? A barely-explained quest where you run around and do random shit for no particular reason.

That's the relic weapon questline in a nutshell, and the fact that it's so bland and boring makes it stick out like a sore thumb against all of the other story objectives in the game. Even the crafting and gathering professions have storylines associated with them, FFS! But the relic weapon quest devolves to someone telling you to go check off a big laundry list of random crap because...reasons.

[Tiggy]

Know what else was fairly casual? The Hildebrand storyline, and yet it managed to not be skull-crushingly boring.

Because you're ignoring the obvious to try and make some sort of misguided point. The hildebrand story line was intended to be consumed quickly and the weapon was in no way intended to be consumed quickly. These two pieces of content are not similar enough in intent to make this comparison. "Casual" is not enough.

People need to step back and remember that this quest line was added solely to give casual players something to do and as an alternative means to get a powerful weapon. It serves those points perfectly. You're expecting it to be something it was never meant to be, and then acting disappointed. Your expectations are out of whack what with what the quest was intended to do.

[RichardButte]

Your expectations are out of whack what with what the quest was intended to do.

1. As I already stated, WoW (which thrives on casual players) did the same thing without making it boring as hell.

2. Since when was "Giving casual players something to do" an excuse for no storyline?

Seriously, in a game series known for its EPIC storylines, why does the relic weapon questline have next to NONE?

It's just lazy. I understand that the questline was intended to give casuals something to do. No one is arguing that, but none of that excuses it being as bland and lazy as it is.

That's like the people who make terrible entertainment and then say, "Eh, it's for children, what do you expect?" when GOOD kids' entertainment is enjoyable even by adults.

[Tiggy]

2. Since when was "Giving casual players something to do" an excuse for no storyline?

It did have a story line. I've been watching it each step of the way over the last 2.5 months that it took me to complete it. Not only did it have main characters but it had supporting roles that developed some lore in their own right. Just because you aren't happy with what it had doesn't mean you can go around lying saying it didn't have a story line. It most certainly did. I personally rather enjoyed the process of creating the most epic weapon in the realm. Hero's don't make weapons. Craftsman do. The quest clearly was very tightly tied to the craftsman. I don't know what you really expected otherwise. Defeat some epic monster or something? That's what you DO with epic weapons. Not how you make them. Even most of the quest line was gathering materials to perform a process on the weapon.

Also what do people expect in grindy content? A cut scene every so often telling you you're good at grinding? At some point you need to walk away from the NPCs and just do work. What kind of story would even be "epic" in the context of forging a weapon for you? Instead of just saying it's bad why not suggest what you would consider good. That would be more productive.

Even if that isn't what you expect what was so wrong with the Zodiac phase? 1 big quest with 4 small quests each with their own characters, cut scenes, and lore. Lot's more cutscenes. More NPC engagement. What's so wrong with that approach?

[QiLymePye]

And its also a slap in the face for casuals. First, lest define casual gamer properly. The casual gamer is considered casual because of the time put into game, whether said time is available or just what they want to spend playing game, not because of skill level of game. Casual players are not lemmings or children that just play blindly and are just ok with hitting 2 buttons all day. Casual players are casual because of time invested.


Now, like previous poster has said, the problem with this game is that there only two ways to play. Either doing slow monotonous boring grinding or trying to raid. SE (and lots of others in this community) have a problem with how they perceive "casual" gamers. Casual gamers are not stupid. Casual gamers are not mindless zombies. Casual gamers are not just content with easy stuff. I consider myself a hybrid gamer. There are days when I have nothing to do and I can play games all day, hardcore. But also there is this thing called life. And not everyone is living the same one. So because of that, there are people that just can't put in the time to do some of the things in this game like relic grind. But also, those same people don't have the time to form statics, have time to be dedicated to certain times to play with others to enjoy end game content. Where are those people to play? The main problem with this game that many are having is the "time" you have to put in to do either of the two options in this game. I like to play all at one time as much as I can, but there are days where i only have maybe 1 hr or 2 each day for the whole week. So stop using the word "casual" so casually when talking about a group of players.

Now, I like a challenge. Time grinding same low lvl dungeon for hours and low lvl fates for hours for RNG is not a "challenge" as far a gaming goes. It has less to do with game skills and more to do with enduring monotonous boring stuff for hours, which many casual gamers do not have. Casual gamers are just asking for an increase in difficulty, increase in story/lore, increase in fun. All of you elitist think that if you are not hardcore, you must be casual. That's far from the truth. And the faster SE and the majority of this community realize this, the better the game will get.

[BreathlessTao]

And its also a slap in the face for casuals. First, lest define casual gamer properly. The casual gamer is considered casual because of the time put into game, whether said time is available or just what they want to spend playing game, not because of skill level of game. Casual players are not lemmings or children that just play blindly and are just ok with hitting 2 buttons all day. Casual players are casual because of time invested.

Now, like previous poster has said, the problem with this game is that there only two ways to play. Either doing slow monotonous boring grinding or trying to raid. SE (and lots of others in this community) have a problem with how they perceive "casual" gamers. Casual gamers are not stupid. Casual gamers are not mindless zombies. Casual gamers are not just content with easy stuff. I consider myself a hybrid gamer. There are days when I have nothing to do and I can play games all day, hardcore. But also there is this thing called life. And not everyone is living the same one. So because of that, there are people that just can't put in the time to do some of the things in this game like relic grind. But also, those same people don't have the time to form statics, have time to be dedicated to certain times to play with others to enjoy end game content. Where are those people to play? The main problem with this game that many are having is the "time" you have to put in to do either of the two options in this game. I like to play all at one time as much as I can, but there are days where i only have maybe 1 hr or 2 each day for the whole week. So stop using the word "casual" so casually when talking about a group of players.

Now, I like a challenge. Time grinding same low lvl dungeon for hours and low lvl fates for hours for RNG is not a "challenge" as far a gaming goes. It has less to do with game skills and more to do with enduring monotonous boring stuff for hours, which many casual gamers do not have. Casual gamers are just asking for an increase in difficulty, increase in story/lore, increase in fun. All of you elitist think that if you are not hardcore, you must be casual. That's far from the truth. And the faster SE and the majority of this community realize this, the better the game will get.

^ this. Thank you.