Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[Aikaal]

content design flaw, not profession flaw
As opposed to not having it up as much as possible? Guess we should scrap out block, parry, dodge, misses...
No arguement on that single situation.
Niche.
Niche.
This isn't Final Raid: Coils of Bahamut. Lot more content outside.
Glad to know resurrection has utility
That's fine, I'll virus the adds instead.

Most warriors and paladins have det and crit because they can take the hits easily in farm content. This includes the hardest fights in this game : T10 to T13.

Outside of FCoB is the old content that is extremely easy to overpower. There is WoD where you have zero to six Scholars. Your Virus won't be needed.

Resurrection would be useful on BLM because they have infinite mana. Summoner don't. It roughly takes 30% of your mana pool and if you spam Energy drain, you lose the DPS you are already lacking.

Virusing the adds voids that super-virus buff making it equal to BLM so you don't get that gain.

All these reasons I typed are the reasons why a thread like this exists. Summoners can't compete.

[Romsca]

Why are you all focusing on very specific content instead of looking at as a whole? We could just look at it as Square Enix wants you to play all the classes and swap to the right class for the job, in which case 3.0 could be summoner heaven for content and blm and melee get the shaft.

[Odowla]

Why are you all focusing on very specific content instead of looking at as a whole? We could just look at it as Square Enix wants you to play all the classes and swap to the right class for the job, in which case 3.0 could be summoner heaven for content and blm and melee get the shaft.

Because balance in the easiest content in the game doesnt matter when you can do it with 6 ninjas or 6 bards or 6 dragoons.

However, Raid Balance matters a lot more because if no one's playing the class in the hard content, a lot of those same players aren't gonna play it in the easier content.

The effect is already pretty obvious, I rarely see a Summoner even in WoD. If that's not damning, I don't know what is.

[Aikaal]

Why are you all focusing on very specific content instead of looking at as a whole? We could just look at it as Square Enix wants you to play all the classes and swap to the right class for the job, in which case 3.0 could be summoner heaven for content and blm and melee get the shaft.

Because new gear makes old content easy and you don't need those buffs. Like... This moved used to do 6-7k damage on my 7.5k PLD. Yeah, I need to do something. Now my Paladin have 11.5k health... Echo makes old content easy. 24-men raids are meant to be easy and brainless.

You are right, maybe in 3.0 SMNs will be the best. Who knows. In 2.3, they buffed BLMs because they couldn't keep up. I was still playing BLM. I,d prefer a SMN in my raid who is good and enjoy the game as SMN over forcing him to play BLM.

If you look at Mister Happy, his group is NIN, DRG, BRD, SMN. It's easier and people prefer BLM and Monk over SMN and DRG but it still works.

[Romsca]

Most warriors and paladins have det and crit because they can take the hits easily in farm content. This includes the hardest fights in this game : T10 to T13.

Outside of FCoB is the old content that is extremely easy to overpower. There is WoD where you have zero to six Scholars. Your Virus won't be needed.

Resurrection would be useful on BLM because they have infinite mana. Summoner don't. It roughly takes 30% of your mana pool and if you spam Energy drain, you lose the DPS you are already lacking.

Virusing the adds voids that super-virus buff making it equal to BLM so you don't get that gain.

All these reasons I typed are the reasons why a thread like this exists. Summoners can't compete.

Again and again, DESIGN FLAW NOT PROFFESION FLAW. Yes black mage has infinite mana though umbral ice phase mechanic. Summoner should have been designed with a very large mana pool, possibly over 4k so that the return on both aetherflow and incombat man regen tick would balance out their mana costs and upkeep, and any extreme circumstances, use of energy drain.

Smn is not the same playstyle as blm, we have our strengths and you have yours. I think the current version of smn needs some tweaks, piety to mana and weapon damage mainly, but to say our utility sucks or we can't compete is strictly due to content design that plays against our strengths.

[Romsca]

Because new gear makes old content easy and you don't need those buffs. Like... This moved used to do 6-7k damage on my 7.5k PLD. Yeah, I need to do something. Now my Paladin have 11.5k health... Echo makes old content easy. 24-men raids are meant to be easy and brainless.

You are right, maybe in 3.0 SMNs will be the best. Who knows. In 2.3, they buffed BLMs because they couldn't keep up. I was still playing BLM. I,d prefer a SMN in my raid who is good and enjoy the game as SMN over forcing him to play BLM.

If you look at Mister Happy, his group is NIN, DRG, BRD, SMN. It's easier and people prefer BLM and Monk over SMN and DRG but it still works.

Echo was a bad choice. It should have bolstered lower ilevel players up a bit and then gear synced higher ilevel down to keep content challenging but not too challenging.

[Odowla]

Echo was a bad choice. It should have bolstered lower ilevel players up a bit and then gear synced higher ilevel down to keep content challenging but not too challenging.

I mean considering how many people have yet to clear t5, I don't it matters what Echo actually does, lol. 10k+ DRG's with full i130, still on t5 doing 100 dps, like, thats not challenging that's a design flaw lol.

[Aikaal]

Again and again, DESIGN FLAW NOT PROFFESION FLAW. Yes black mage has infinite mana though umbral ice phase mechanic. Summoner should have been designed with a very large mana pool, possibly over 4k so that the return on both aetherflow and incombat man regen tick would balance out their mana costs and upkeep, and any extreme circumstances, use of energy drain.

Smn is not the same playstyle as blm, we have our strengths and you have yours. I think the current version of smn needs some tweaks, piety to mana and weapon damage mainly, but to say our utility sucks or we can't compete is strictly due to content design that plays against our strengths.

I gain Piety when I use my BLM soul Crystal, Summoner Don't. BLM don't have a flaw design. They don't need to be changed so they are equal to SMNs. It's the SMN that needs to be changed meaning you are saying they need a buff.

[Romsca]

The effect is already pretty obvious, I rarely see a Summoner even in WoD. If that's not damning, I don't know what is.

First hour of WoD being out, I ran as a summoner and I still go as a summoner. Those first 10 runs I have never revived more players dying in the first boss than I have my whole time as a healer since 2.0, now you could say that was a waste but I don't feel that way. Got my groups though the raid.

[BakaWakka]

Again and again, DESIGN FLAW NOT PROFFESION FLAW.

I find it interesting that instead of addressing the blatant flaws that summoners have, you're instead pointing fingers at the content and saying that all the content is flawed. Almost as if you think the entire game should be centered around summoners when every other job currently has no issues at all with the current content. Interesting indeed.

At the end of the day, numbers are numbers, and Summoners simply cannot keep up with Black Mages in the current content, and their "utility" is next to irrelevant.

But then again, according to you, Square Enix should change all content in the game so that Summoner is more useful, rather than simply, I don't know, changing the class itself.

Interesting argument indeed.