Can someone give me an in-depth explanation why Summoner is arguably the worst DPS?

[ViviAnimus]

Why is the duration of something even an argument in the first place. The established thing is that SMN is outdamaged on every front and that needs to change. End of argument. There is no need to make them wait because it has been like this for several months. But you don't grant a buff based on the month, but based on the fact that its outdamaged. Jesus. And alright, I grant the Leviathan being a good fight for Summoner. I am glad you pointed out that it doesn't matter anyway. I didn't even know you could do that, so that's terrible on my part. Although I would still challenge him to tell us his numbers so I can compare them to mine in the future.

[Kona_Nightwind]

Re-start of argument.

I'm no coder but I'm sure its a little more complex than "SMN need more damage". They need to see how it will effect leveling, current, and future content. If it effects the design changes for the patch and it makes SMN OP or worse then they are now SE will have to deal with more SMN threads. And no one wants that.

[ViviAnimus]

And on that note, I am just going to back out from this. It's always the same boring and silly arguments that it's about the fights themselves man! Look, Levi EX might be the only fight where SMN truly beats BLM. Well done. T9 in my opinion is rather close. To keep coming back to movement is to understimate BLM potentional. You can use Final coil as a perfect example.
T10, they should be relatively close, but they're not. BLM beats SMN by a lot on that turn. Regardless of the fact that you can bane, have uptime during movement and charges.
T11, very movement heavy, yet BLM triumps again. Also, completely single target, so SMN should win, it doesn't.
T12, good fight for both classes, yet BLM wins again.
T13, highly favourable fight for SMN, yet BLM still wins again.

We'll see what SE decides. But for now, there is no reason to use a SMN on anything relevant. And it has been like this for quite a while now.

Of course it's more complex than SMN needs more damage, but they need more damage and that's simple. Even in fights that are highly favourable for SMN, BLM wins. In fights that are equally favourable, BLM shits on SMN and you can't have that. T10, again, is a perfectly example, where the top BLM DPS beats the top SMN by 80 DPS. Is this not a problem? When the conditions are the same, actually T10 is more favourable for SMN, and it gets shat on, then something is wrong. Then it has nothing to do with fight mechanics, because you can establish that they are favourable for both parties. That is an objective parameter that refutes this "complex" issue. It's not that complex.

[ViviAnimus]

You have your opinions and I have mine is indifference. Nice strawman by the way. You started with being indifferent and accepting toward the 40+ DPS gap. Not only that, I apoligized in case I misread or represented, you never set that record straight. So to me, you started from a point of view that is absolute ludicrous and even slavish. To embrace the fact that you do less DPS on every front while having arguably inferior utility and definitely resource management is just wow. Although I must say that it is absolutely fantastic that we have established that Summoner does beat BLM on Levi EX. This is great, fantastic. Other than that, if you're no longer arguing with the things I say, might be best to leave it at that.

[Sunako]

80 dps is bit exaggerated. If you compare highest dps that have done with SMN and highest what have ever done with BLM, you have 2 remember BLM have more variation on their dps because of their procs. Average dps is that what should matter more than that how lucky you are with procs.

[Ardan]

"The MP cost of the arcanist actions Ruin and Ruin II has been reduced."

Ripped straight from the 2.51 patch notes.

[Shizuna]

"The MP cost of the arcanist actions Ruin and Ruin II has been reduced."

Ripped straight from the 2.51 patch notes.

I guess that's something... but come on, really, SE?! That's it?! What about a higher base piety and a shorter enkindle and anything else that would help a bit? =_=

[Viviza]

I guess that's something... but come on, really, SE?! That's it?! What about a higher base piety and a shorter enkindle and anything else that would help a bit? =_=

Step 1. Collectively argue that MP consumption is a major problem for summoners
Step 2. SE announces reduced cost on certain summoner spells
Step 3. Complain a lot about the announcement
Step 4. ???

[sackm]

Never really had mp issues before so this doesnt change anything. Being able to Ruin 2 more isnt going to magically allow me to match the BLMs doing 550 dps in T10 (personal high is 500ish). pathetic change imo

[Skeith-Adeline]

This will get fun rather quickly lol