Massive fail by Matsui - telling melee range to suck it up for not getting invites

[Kensei]

Ranged attack outside if AoE.

If the Archer has skill: he would know all the required abilities to avoid getting hit at all: (traits like Out if Sight; Chameleon,etc are all natural Arc mechanics designed to help Arc live)

Also: Arc already has the lowest cooldowns PLUS overdone damage

A skilled Arc will never get hate from the tank that is correct and the same applies to all DD. My point is after the multishot nerf Arc damage is where it needs to be.

People claiming Arc damage needs further nerf don't understand that the damage is not the reason other DDs don't get invites, it is because they can stay away from AoE. The dungeon can be and has been cleared by all classes but people who lack skill or can't strategize just ask for Arcs to clear it in easy mode. This is not the dev team's fault. Stop complaining and get a competent group to clear it with.

[Arcell]

I dont understand why people talk about ranged advantage. There is no range advantage at the moment because every mob has a ranged attack.
Maybe in parties there is one but then the tank is doing his job good. Srsly what else should archer do other then the most dmg? thats his job!

Sure this game still need a lot of balancing.

That's the thing though, Archer shouldn't be doing the most damage. Ranged classes should do less damage for the advantage they have of range. The range gives them the advantage of not getting hit by most attacks in group settings. I don't think anyone's really worried about solo here.

The job of an archer is to do damage yes but they shouldn't outshine all the close-range War classes while being able to stand far away and out of danger. If they do more damage than anyone else and take the least damage, why wouldn't everyone use them? That's where the problem is, they need a Con to all the classes Pros. And yes part of the problem is their damage. If close-range War classes did more damage there might be some incentive to bring them over Archers as you take a chance on survivability for more damage.

The only downside of playing an Archer is consumable ammo and even then arrows are pretty easy to come by. Hell in my LS all any Archer needs to do is ask and they'll be supplied with stacks of arrows, they're not hard to make.

Edit: Don't know why people have started bringing up enmity. That's hardly any kind of a problem for most competent players. Accomplice, Quelling Strike, Out of Sight, Chameleon, etc... If the tank knows how to hold hate and the party knows how to manage hate there should be 0 problems with it.

[AreeyaJaidee]

A skilled Arc will never get hate from the tank that is correct and the same applies to all DD. My point is after the multishot nerf Arc damage is where it needs to be.

People claiming Arc damage needs further nerf don't understand that the damage is not the reason other DDs don't get invites, it is because they can stay away from AoE. The dungeon can be and has been cleared by all classes but people who lack skill or can't strategize just ask for Arcs to clear it in easy mode. This is not the dev team's fault. Stop complaining and get a competent group to clear it with.

I wasn't "complaining" i was telling YOU what else Archer had to offer besides damage because your main point was IF SE nerfs Arc then what would they have left? Thus my answer

Stay calm lol

[tachikoma]

Didn't they announce 1.18a increasing the DMG for PGL/LNC/MRD's ws's/attacks today? This should and could even the playing field. A little position work and any job can be effective in the darkhold. Many groups are lazy and don't want mele dps but if you find a good LS you can go on any job. Even on betraal a LNC vs ARC argument is pretty even, the LNC can solo a skelly easily with some support skills where the arc NEEDS a secondary healer.

1 easy adjustment that all classes need and would help end this ARC or GTFO debate would be heavy dmg penatly and boost for weapon types vs mobs. I really wish BLUNT made a much bigger difference vs bones, and piercing/slashing did next to nothing. this way you would need a pgl for the bones portion of betraal. Would help with party diversification.

[Kensei]

I wasn't "complaining" i was telling YOU what else Archer had to offer besides damage because your main point was IF SE nerfs Arc then what would they have left? Thus my answer

Stay calm lol

When I said people complaining I meant in general. And well you didn't mention anything that Arcs bring aside from damage. Out of Sight and Chameleon don't add anything to the group's performance and Chameleon isn't even needed if the Arc is skilled.

I'm calmed, it's hard to express a tone with text. It may sound like I'm pissed but I'm not lol.

[Arcell]

When I said people complaining I meant in general. And well you didn't mention anything that Arcs bring aside from damage. Out of Sight and Chameleon don't add anything to the group's performance and Chameleon isn't even needed if the Arc is skilled.

I'm calmed, it's hard to express a tone with text. It may sound like I'm pissed but I'm not lol.

It's not just the damage though. The job of a damage dealing class is to do damage yes, Archer is one of them. The reason it has such an advantage is that it can deal comparable or greater damage than other War classes at a range, and thus taking much less or no damage while doing so.

Enmity management skills such as Out of Sight and Chameleon do add to the group's performance as managing enmity is a group effort now. Everyone has to make sure they're doing their part to keep their enmity where it should be. People with low enmity can steal some off of people with high enmity with Accomplice, people can lower their enmity bit by bit over time with attacks and abilities.

[Kensei]

It's not just the damage though. The job of a damage dealing class is to do damage yes, Archer is one of them. The reason it has such an advantage is that it can deal comparable or greater damage than other War classes at a range, and thus taking much less or no damage while doing so.

Enmity management skills such as Out of Sight and Chameleon do add to the group's performance as managing enmity is a group effort now. Everyone has to make sure they're doing their part to keep their enmity where it should be. People with low enmity can steal some off of people with high enmity with Accomplice, people can lower their enmity bit by bit over time with attacks and abilities.

You are right but I'm just surprised to see so many blame Archer's damage output as the reason others don't get invites. The reason is, as you and I said in a post earlier, being able to attack out of AoE range. Nerfing ARCs damage will do nothing to change that. People who want easy mode will still invite Archer over the others.

[Arcell]

You are right but I'm just surprised to see so many blame Archer's damage output as the reason others don't get invites. The reason is, as you and I said in a post earlier, being able to attack out of AoE range. Nerfing ARCs damage will do nothing to change that. People who want easy mode will still invite Archer over the others.

Well no nerfing the damage of Archers/increasing the damage of other War damage classes will help. There has to be incentive to invite other War damage classes, damage would be a great incentive. Either you can bring other War classes and have higher DPS and thus clear some things faster or you can bring some Archers which increases survivability at the cost of some of that DPS.

It's not just damage or just range, it's the fact that they have the best of both worlds. You certainly can't decrease their range in comparison to other classes but damage is an acceptable balance.

[Rinsui]

Nerfing ARCs damage will do nothing to change that. People who want easy mode will still invite Archer over the others.

Hmm. Not necessarily - if, for example, 5 archers take forever to bring down a boss because it dynamically adapts to piercing damage, Archers would drop out of favor pretty fast...

[Kensei]

Hmm. Not necessarily - if, for example, 5 archers take forever to bring down a boss because it dynamically adapts to piercing damage, Archers would drop out of favor pretty fast...

The only way archers would take forever to take something down in comparison to other classes would be if their damage is 75% of that of the other classes. If that happens SE might as well remove them from the game. They would be pure damage dealers that don't deal damage. They would have to pay for ammo, can't effectively wear heavy armor, have lower HP than the other classes, have no abilities that benefit the group, and lowest damage in the game. Who the hell would play them? It would be absurd.