Massive fail by Matsui - telling melee range to suck it up for not getting invites

[Aldora]

At best you're right, and at worst you're horribly wrong. But that's why I post on these forums, to ensure the best possible outcome. I just want to do my part to make the issues clear. Your suggestions would be great and I hope that is exactly what happens. I was talking about flow of player behavior actually.

Just to be make sure that we are on the same wave here, my post was not intended as an attack of any kind. I just stated my view on the lack of invites. (^_^ ) There's always a time when certain jobs are in favor with the "public". I remember a time where my little brother and i were playing Final Fantasy XI. I was leveling a Red Mage while he was leveling a Thief. We got a certain point where i got invites for parties, simply by logging on. He on the other had was waiting for hours, just to get an invite, just because there were "better" jobs out there. After a few weeks, he was on the verge of quitting the game because he was so fed up with waiting for hours and hours, just for an invite. Thankfully he managed to create a static Linkshell party with a couple of LS members and got his Thief to 75 in a "jiffy".

It was the same with other jobs as well. Dragoons, waiting hours on end for a party. Then an update arrived where pentathrust gave massive TP and suddenly everyone was leveling a Dragoon. Puppetmaster, the same...

I can only hope that after the rebalancing and job introductions, each class will have equal use in a party. After that, it's the community that decides which classes they want in their parties. (Even though they are already doing that with parties like GLD, ARC, ARC, ARC, CON, CON) (^_^; )

Time will tell. (^_~ )

[Sav]

This is the only endgame fight out right now. Once more are implemented, will this still be a problem? I haven't done the raid yet, so I can't comment. At least solo, I'm content with the MP cost of Cures. Then again, I'm a CON.

Would your solution be for them to drop the MP cost on heals? Or make the boss more melee friendly? Either way, favoring ranged attacks is a type of strategy, and strategies are more valuable, in my opinion, than tank-n'-spank boss fights.

It's not that I can't relate completely, though. In FFXI, my main was THF, meaning I was useful for pretty much just sky farming and nothing else. I'd manage to get pity invites to other events from LS mates, heh.

If it's a game-breaker for you, keep in mind the raid is still only two weeks old. People need time to get comfortable with it.

[Neptune]

This is the only endgame fight out right now. Once more are implemented, will this still be a problem?

Would your solution be for them to drop the MP cost on heals? Or make the boss more melee friendly? Either way, favoring ranged attacks is a type of strategy, and strategies are more valuable, in my opinion, than tank-n'-spank boss fights.

...keep in mind the raid is still only two weeks old. People need time to get comfortable with it.

Yes, it will always be a problem. Make no mistake the dev team worked very hard on this dungeon, and I'll post my overall thoughts about it later. No doubt the gameplay was not as good with the old healing magic system and that's why they changed it. But it isn't worth the trade off, as I have stated elsewhere. It will continue to be a problem until they come up with something that doesn't rest on spare curing as the backbone.

My solution? If I were in charge every class would be in charge of managing its own limited healing options. The dev team is best equipped to create the challenging gameplay they want and prioritize what's important to them. What I'm shocked about is that even after this generous period of feedback since the patch, this is all Matsui can come up with. Clearly something is broken when it relies on MP costs alone. Good God, why don't they fire up WoW. Healing is important in the really tough fights in that game but it's not broken. I remember from WoW that if melee messed up they could get healers into trouble, and if it went on way to long it would be a wipe. That seems to be a more desirable outcome than melee getting dropped from serious groups straight up.

The thing is even if people do get comfortable with it, people have already been mistreated for 2 weeks. How do you think some of them feel, especially if they're already feeling down about this game or the patch to begin with?

I'm not entirely sure what your point is because of your use of the term "melee range". What's that mean?

Sorry if that was confusing. I meant people that attack in melee range, all DoW except Gladiator.

Did you even play 11 OP? Wtf.

XI is irrelevant.. just because Tanaka couldn't solve a problem doesn't give that problem an excuse to exist! Do you really want all the problems from XI in a new game? I believe that's called masochism.

[Eekiki]

Sorry if that was confusing. I meant people that attack in melee range, all DoW except Gladiator.

Okay, gotcha.

I dunno Neptune, that's not the impression I'm getting from this translation. Sounds to me like SE's plan is to give melees a damage buff, and possibly a buff to their self-healing abilities.

Even if that's the case, I'm kind of on the fence about that. Yeah, melees need some kind of damage buff to help them compete a little more with archers, but I have some concerns.

If abilities like second wind are enhanced, that lowers the market rating for Conjurers. I thought the whole intention was to make Conjurers the main healer class.

Second, one of the reasons I chose Pugilist was because it appeared to me that its purpose was to be an offensive tank, absorbing damage through speed and evasion, and maintaining hate through dealing damage. This would be opposed by the Gladiator, a defensive tank, using enmity generating abilities and absorbing damage through vitality and shield blocking.

A friend of mine chose MRD, because MRD had a standard TP-generating attack that could hit multiple enemies. Now that attack is on a 30 second cooldown (or something like that, I haven't played MRD) and MRD's auto-attack hits only one enemy.

So me choosing PGL to be an offensive tank, and my friend choosing MRD to be a crowd control melee attacker, are now just regular old DD's, and outshined in that department by ARCs.

I'm not saying ARC shouldn't be the most powerful physical attacker, but ARC is so far ahead of other DD classes it isn't even worth it for your average player to bother with anything but ARC.

[Firon]

Okay, gotcha.

I dunno Neptune, that's not the impression I'm getting from this translation. Sounds to me like SE's plan is to give melees a damage buff, and possibly a buff to their self-healing abilities.

Even if that's the case, I'm kind of on the fence about that. Yeah, melees need some kind of damage buff to help them compete a little more with archers, but I have some concerns.

If abilities like second wind are enhanced, that lowers the market rating for Conjurers. I thought the whole intention was to make Conjurers the main healer class.

Second, one of the reasons I chose Pugilist was because it appeared to me that its purpose was to be an offensive tank, absorbing damage through speed and evasion, and maintaining hate through dealing damage. This would be opposed by the Gladiator, a defensive tank, using enmity generating abilities and absorbing damage through vitality and shield blocking.

A friend of mine chose MRD, because MRD had a standard TP-generating attack that could hit multiple enemies. Now that attack is on a 30 second cooldown (or something like that, I haven't played MRD) and MRD's auto-attack hits only one enemy.

So me choosing PGL to be an offensive tank, and my friend choosing MRD to be a crowd control melee attacker, are now just regular old DD's, and outshined in that department by ARCs.

I'm not saying ARC shouldn't be the most powerful physical attacker, but ARC is so far ahead of other DD classes it isn't even worth it for your average player to bother with anything but ARC.

actually PUG can still tank just fine for me, if anything it is much more easy now.

[Eekiki]

actually PUG can still tank just fine for me, if anything it is much more easy now.

Absolutely true, but ask yourself this: If you had to choose between a PGL and GLA to tank the darkhold, what would you choose? If you had both PGL and GLA geared and rank 50 and were asked to tank, which class would you choose?

Even MRD can tank just fine if you know what you're doing, but nothing can tank like a GLA. If it's SE's intention to make GLA the only dedicated tank class, that's fine. But what makes MRD, PGL, and LNC unique from each other besides the weapon, and an ability or two? Before it was kinda like this:

GLA: defensive tank
PGL: offensive tank
MRD: crowd control melee
LNC: support melee
ARC: ranged damage
THM: arcane magic
CON: elemental magic

Looks to me like Yoshi-P's "class uniqueness" was already in the game. Now this is the direction it appears to be heading to me:

GLA: tank
CON: healer/support
THM: nuke/debuff/DoT
ARC: ranged attack
MRD: melee
PGL: melee
LNC: melee

Yes, it isn't this cut and dry yet, but as I said, it looks like this is the direction we're headed in.

[mysterytaru]

I believe that's called masochism.

Masochism is playing a game you *clearly* don't like and doing nothing but whining about it.

[Neptune]

I only have a few minutes but I picked the two most incendiary posts to reply to.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

Interesting. I wasn't hiding anything. It's right out there in the open why I opened this thread, and you're right that it's consistent with my other threads about this patch. MP cost was a small change that has had an incredible effect on the balance of the game. It's becoming clear that the entire dungeon was balanced on the tip of healing magic casting, a ridiculous and unacceptable scenario.

So you don't think that sticking up for other classes merits further attention from me? I noticed that you are a Gladiator and Archer. No wonder you don't care about anyone but yourself. Way to go.

Masochism is playing a game you *clearly* don't like and doing nothing but whining about it.

Masochism is the love of pain. If I don't like it what does that tell you?

To you two who think criticism is whining, I'd like you to ask yourselves why asking for change is annoying to you. All I hear outta you is that you want to improve your own entertainment at the direct expense of others.