Ironworks Fishing Rod

[BobbinT]

Personally I am grateful for my Ironworks, equipped on my FSH retainer doing ventures. And the second Ironworks I gave to my other FSH retainer. Saves me a lot of trouble melding to meet the gathering caps on ventures.

How the heck you could have 2 ironwork rods? Buy extra one from calamity npc?

[DarkmoonVael]

How the heck you could have 2 ironwork rods? Buy extra one from calamity npc?

Yeah you can buy multiple ironwork rods for less than 4800 gil each from the calamity salvager.

[DarkmoonVael]

Okay, we’ll start here:

Your refusal to actually acknowledge any counterpoints that have been brought up and instead repeat yourself doesn’t help your argument. Everything bolded and red is things that have already been said and argued that you, even still, have ignored.

--


1. It’s common knowledge that the Lucis tools are not necessary for any of the nodes or fish currently in the game. They are obviously intended to prepare us for the future. Thanks for reminding us.
2. This is proof only that the Ironworks Rod was replaced before it ever served an actual purpose. You’re right, the rod is moot. The entire argument is that rod is moot and that it shouldn’t be.

--


Everything bolded and red is things that have already been said and argued that you refuse to acknowledge, even still.


--


This has been addressed four times. Four times.





--


Please check the previous discussion. I have never said or implied that you said the ironworks was not hard work. Never.

--


Thanks for the recap. I haven’t been reading. Apparently, you haven’t either though.


--


I’ve already explained why this is not the case unless you already have the Ironworks Rod. Please re-read the previous posts.

--


Unlike the Ironworks Rod, the Forager’s Rod actually had a time when it was exceptionally useful. It was not made obsolete when the Supra was introduced because it became a necessary step in progressing toward Supra. Only after obtaining the Supra was it obsolete. Ironworks Rod, however, is hardly necessary to get the Lucis.

--


1. These rings were obviously introduced with fresh 50s in mind. They are not hard to get.
2. You love to toss around the word logic. Here’s some logic for you.

Irrespective of the rings not “looking ‘good’” they are, nonE the less very unique in appearance and unlike any other rings.
The Ironworks Rod, however, looks like basically every other rod in the game with the exception of Halcyon Rod variants.

--


Use the inferior tool. Excellent solution. (Edited because I misread this).

--

Now, if you would be so kind, stop responding.

You are obviously satisfied with the Ironworks Rod as it is. You've made this clear. As is evident by the fact that you've done nothing but repeat yourself, you've nothing worthwhile left to contribute to the discussion. Move on.

I have been engaging in the discussion, it is your issue if it is not what you want to hear. Raging at someone since they have a different opinion to you is not particularly, how should i put it, noble.

The fact that you can not accept this is an achievement reward, and not, as you put it, the equivalent of the foragers off hands, is the crux of this matter. If you go to the calamity salavager, it is listed in achievement rewards.

If this is how you wish to garner support for your request, you will be facing a very steep uphill battle.

You still have to explain how the ironworks is the same as the foragers gear, this is a main part of your argument. One that you have not answered to any satisfactory degree. If you could construct an argument why its necessary for a fisher to have a higher ilvl ironworks rod as part of the game, you would get support. The argument seems to be "i worked for this, its now the second best rod in the game, change it now SE"

Now perhaps stop shouting at people, stop demanding that they immediatly cease any discussion in a public forum in a thread that you created for public discussion.

[liev]

I have been engaging in the discussion, it is your issue if it is not what you want to hear. Raging at someone since they have a different opinion to you is not particularly, how should i put it, noble.

You've responded to actually nothing that's been written. You're just repeating yourself. Note that I've been able to respond to your new posts almost entirely in quotes from my own previous posts. Also, raging is laughable. Any stylized text was simply to emphasize points that have been repeated again and again which you have not once acknowledged.

The fact that you can not accept this is an achievement reward, and not, as you put it, the equivalent of the foragers off hands, is the crux of this matter. If you go to the calamity salavager, it is listed in achievement rewards.

1. I have not once failed to acknowledge that it's an achievement reward. It literally comes from an achievement...the calamity salvager need not be consulted.
2. The entire argument is that because this achievement is so hard to get the rod should either be better stats wise or be more unique in appearance.

You still have to explain how the ironworks is the same as the foragers gear, this is a main part of your argument. One that you have not answered to any satisfactory degree.

It is not a main part of the argument.
Forager's Offhands were only brought up in the first place because you insisted that no other class was graced with something special like the Forager's Rod. I do not agree with that sentiment, as I've already stated. This however bears little relevance to the main argument.
By your own admission, you view the rod as something special. My point from the OP is that it should remain special, if only in terms of looks. As of now, it is special in neither looks nor stats.

I've updated the OP to reflect this.

"Fisher is lucky to have gotten the Ironworks Fishing Rod. Miner and Botanist didn't get anything."

This is a red herring. If you're concerned with fairness to Miner and Botanist, make a separate suggestion thread. The point of this post is that fisher had to work, and work hard to obtain the rod. It is my stance that the rod should at least have a unique appearance if its use was going to be limited to a single major patch.

If you could construct an argument why its necessary for a fisher to have a higher ilvl ironworks rod as part of the game, you would get support. The argument seems to be "i worked for this, its now the second best rod in the game, change it now SE"

1. The OP.
2. Bold and red text obviously doesn't improve your reading comprehension. Let's try font size.

Either:
A) The Ironworks Rod should be made better than or at least on par with the Lucis. It's much harder & more time consuming to obtain, so the stats should reflect this. (Preferred)

B) (In light of how difficult it is to get) The appearance of the Ironworks Rod should be altered so that it is at least worthwhile as a glamour item. It's very plain and boring. There's nothing special about it.

C) Both!? I can hope!

Literally from the OP. Quoted more than once.

If this is how you wish to garner support for your request, you will be facing a very steep uphill battle.
…
Now perhaps stop shouting at people, stop demanding that they immediatly cease any discussion in a public forum in a thread that you created for public discussion.

"Discussion"
That's laughable considering this entire thing can be summarized as
Me, in the OP: I think the Ironworks Rod should be either improved to reflect its difficulty to obtain in comparison to the Lucis, or that its appearance should be altered so that is worthwhile if only as a glamour item.
You: You're wrong.
Me: I disagree. Here are reasons why.
You: You're wrong. (the same points you already made that I already adressed)
Repeat the last two ad infinitum.

A "noble" move would've been to voice your opinion as something other than fact, which you have not done. You’re so full of yourself that you had the audacity to call your initial response an “answer” as if you work at SE.

You came here to argue, and you have done nothing but argue. You don’t get to act offended now because I called you out on it and asked you to stop. Now, I will not grace you with further replies.

[aerolol]

Just as a side note...
you don't need
"53 big fish total, 357 minimum gathering"
It's actually only 33 big fish total now for Lucis.

It's totally possible to skip the forager rod and go straight to supra.

I know that because that's what I did.

Forager body + forager shoes and forager hat fully melded ( I didn't have and still dont have neither forager gloves nor legs, just regular Fisher gloves/legs with crappy melds) , dodore stuff fully melded too.
HQ Food + Gathering FC buff and I caught all the 3 heat wave fishes needed. And no fish ever escaped =D

[DarkmoonVael]

You've responded to actually nothing that's been written. You're just repeating yourself. Note that I've been able to respond to your new posts almost entirely in quotes from my own previous posts. Also, raging is laughable. Any stylized text was simply to emphasize points that have been repeated again and again which you have not once acknowledged.


1. I have not once failed to acknowledge that it's an achievement reward. It literally comes from an achievement...the calamity salvager need not be consulted.
2. The entire argument is that because this achievement is so hard to get the rod should either be better stats wise or be more unique in appearance.


It is not a main part of the argument.
Forager's Offhands were only brought up in the first place because you insisted that no other class was graced with something special like the Forager's Rod. I do not agree with that sentiment, as I've already stated. This however bears little relevance to the main argument.
By your own admission, you view the rod as something special. My point from the OP is that it should remain special, if only in terms of looks. As of now, it is special in neither looks nor stats.

I've updated the OP to reflect this.




1. The OP.
2. Bold and red text obviously doesn't improve your reading comprehension. Let's try font size.

Literally from the OP. Quoted more than once.



"Discussion"
That's laughable considering this entire thing can be summarized as
Me, in the OP: I think the Ironworks Rod should be either improved to reflect its difficulty to obtain in comparison to the Lucis, or that its appearance should be altered so that is worthwhile if only as a glamour item.
You: You're wrong.
Me: I disagree. Here are reasons why.
You: You're wrong. (the same points you already made that I already adressed)
Repeat the last two ad infinitum.

A "noble" move would've been to voice your opinion as something other than fact, which you have not done. You’re so full of yourself that you had the audacity to call your initial response an “answer” as if you work at SE.

You came here to argue, and you have done nothing but argue. You don’t get to act offended now because I called you out on it and asked you to stop. Now, I will not grace you with further replies.

The responses have been directly in regards to what you have written. It is quite clear they have been.

You call the ironworks the equivalent of the foragers gear the other gathering classes have, this is incorrect. I have argued that it is not, you have not shown any compelling arguments to counter this. As an achievement reward, it is highly unlikly that this is meant to have been a definative upgrade that will stay the BiS for fisher. We were lucky to have been given this in the first place when no other gathering classes were. The fact that you can not engage with this point other than saying its the equivalent of foragers offhands without any justification other that "it was released at the same time".

The fact that you have had to update the OP surely shows you that ther is validity in what has been said. Otherwise why do it. I am glad you have to claify your position. However it still stands that this is a unique reward given to fishers that the other gathering classes have not received. It is difficult to get, but you know, difficulty isnt always gradiated in terms of more difficult=better rewards.

You try to automatically take out one of the main arguments in your OP. However, just because you say you dont want this being considered does not mean you are automatically right. You are stating a premis of your argument, again, if you dont want people engaing with this then dont post on a public forum. My argument is, and has always been, is that it is a unique reward given to fishers alone. It was a reward that was very good when it was released, and it still has relevance. It does not need an ilvl upgrade due to the fact it still has relevance.

Just to make it more than abundantly clear, just because you have tried to take out a major part of the argument in your OP, it does not mean you are right and that it HAS to be ignored. The fact you made such an effort to state this in the first place means that you actually more than understand its relevance.

Now if you havent noticed (and you really havent), the argument is that since the ironworks still has relevance in the game, it does not need the ilvl boost that you are so adament that it needs.

Arguments have been constructed, it is not my problem at all if these can not be handled.

[liev]

I said I wouldn’t reply again but I literally cannot… You are actually incompetent……….

1. Forager's Offhands are not and never were never part of the main argument. Their mention was only edited into the OP entertain your comment about fisher getting special treatment with the rod already.

2. The entire Forager's Offhand argument was over whether fisher got special treatment. We argued over this for a time, but: Arguing over whether fisher got special treatment is a red herring and bears no significance to the actual argument. The OP was edited only to call this argument out for what it is, a red herring.

3. From the beginning the main argument has been that because of how difficult Ironworks is to obtain, it should be altered in stats OR APPEARANCE to remain special.
Note that OR APPEARANCE bit. Read it again. You’ve posted over and over and over again about stats, but from the very initial version of the OP and in every post since I’ve insisted that altering the appearance to be more unique would be plenty.

4. Again, The entire “but fisher already got special treatment” argument you’ve stuck to this entire time is a red herring. The argument from the OP never had anything to do with fairness to Miner and Botanist. It’s about maintaining the special-ness of a very difficult achievement for Fisher.

The responses have been directly in regards to what you have written. It is quite clear they have been.

You’ve quoted each of my posts, but you’ve yet to actually respond to any point made beyond page one.

Me, moving on from all discussion of Forager’s Offhands:

We're not going to agree here. (I proceed to explain for the 30th time that Ironworks is very hard to get and that the only value it had, which was as an upgraded main hand, is no longer applicable. I insist that it should at least have a unique appearance to preserve its special-ness).

You, bringing it back up:

You are, quite simply, plain wrong that the ironworks is the equivalent of the foragers offhands.

Me, moving on (again):

(I quote the previous response and explain for the 31st time that Ironworks is very hard to get and that the only value it had, which was as an upgraded main hand, is no longer applicable. I insist that it should at least have a unique appearance to preserve its special-ness.)
This remains true whether you agree with the offhand tools and Ironworks being comparable or not.

You, bringing it back up, after I’ve pointed at twice now that it doesn’t actually matter whether we agree because it’s not relevant to the main point:

It is still not the case, no matter how much you shout and highlight things in bright red, that the ironworks is the equivalent of the foragers offhand tools.

Me, moving on (once again):

(I quote the previous response and explain for the 32nd time that Ironworks is very hard to get and that the only value it had, which was as an upgraded main hand, is no longer applicable. I insist that it should at least have a unique appearance to preserve its special-ness. I state once more that this, the main point, has nothing to do with Forager’s Offhands.)

You, bringing it up again, despite there being no direct mention of Forager’s tools in my previous post, or the one before it:

The fact that you can not accept this is an achievement reward, and not, as you put it, the equivalent of the foragers off hands, is the crux of this matter. If you go to the calamity salavager, it is listed in achievement rewards.
..
You still have to explain how the ironworks is the same as the foragers gear, this is a main part of your argument.

Me, moving on (the fourth time):

It is not a main part of the argument.
Forager's Offhands were only brought up in the first place because you insisted that no other class was graced with something special like the Ironworks Rod. I do not agree with that sentiment, as I've already stated. This however bears little relevance to the main argument.
By your own admission, you view the rod as something special. My point from the OP is that it should remain special, if only in terms of looks. As of now, it is special in neither looks nor stats.

"Fisher is lucky to have gotten the Ironworks Fishing Rod. Miner and Botanist didn't get anything."
This is a red herring. If you're concerned with fairness to Miner and Botanist, make a separate suggestion thread. The point of this post is that fisher had to work, and work hard to obtain the rod. It is my stance that the rod should at least have a unique appearance if its use was going to be limited to a single major patch.

You, bringing it up a fifth time:

You call the ironworks the equivalent of the foragers gear the other gathering classes have, this is incorrect. I have argued that it is not, you have not shown any compelling arguments to counter this.

Five times you have brought it up since I pointed out that the discussion is irrelevant to the main point. Five times you have displayed your severe lack of reading comprehension skill. In case you’re unaware, a red herring is a logical fallacy. I thought you’d understand this, considering your love for logic.

The fact that you have had to update the OP surely shows you that ther is validity

If you'd actually read and understood anything written, the OP was updated to point out the INVALIDITY of that argument.

Arguments have been constructed, it is not my problem at all if these can not be handled.

Literally the only other point you've ever made in addition to what I've quoted about was that retainers can use the Ironworks Rods. This has been addressed and handled repeatedly. It doesn't make you automatically right that you've chosen to ignore or deny all valid counterpoints and instead just beat to death an argument that died at the top of page two.


Now, just to make it abundantly clear:
1. Forager's Offhands are not and never were never part of the main argument. Their mention was only edited into the OP entertain your comment about fisher getting special treatment with the rod already.

2. The entire Forager's Offhand argument was over whether fisher got special treatment. We argued over this for a time, but: Arguing over whether fisher got special treatment is a red herring and bears no significance to the actual argument. The OP was edited only to call this argument out for what it is, a red herring.

3. From the beginning the main argument has been that because of how difficult Ironworks is to obtain, it should be altered in stats OR APPEARANCE to remain special.
Note that OR APPEARANCE bit. Read it again. You’ve posted over and over and over again about stats, but from the very initial version of the OP and in every post since I’ve insisted that altering the appearance to be more unique would be plenty.

4. Again, The entire “but fisher already got special treatment” argument you’ve stuck to this entire time is a red herring. The argument from the OP never had anything to do with fairness to Miner and Botanist. It’s about maintaining the special-ness of a very difficult achievement for Fisher.

[liev]

Inc

"ironwroks isnt the same as foragers offhand this is a main point you cant automatically just get rod of it""
"ironworsk is still useful because my retainer needs it so there's no reason it should be any more special than that because ironworks rod was totally made with retainers in mind and every fisher has fisher retainers"
"i personally am greteful for my ironworks rod unlike you"

isn't that a direct quote? but from which post? answer: all of them since page one

thanks for your input, very good information to repeat 8 times

[Shiresan]

Inc

"ironwroks isnt the same as foragers offhand this is a main point you cant automatically just get rod of it""
"ironworsk is still useful because my retainer needs it so there's no reason it should be any more special than that because ironworks rod was totally made with retainers in mind and every fisher has fisher retainers"
"i personally am greteful for my ironworks rod unlike you"

isn't that a direct quote? but from which post? answer: all of them since page one

thanks for your input, very good information to repeat 8 times

Just by skimming over your last 2 comments, I figured reading the entire thread wasn't worth it. If you want to have a civil discussion over changes, you should be civil yourself.

Maybe people will take you more seriously.

[liev]

Just by skimming over your last 2 comments, I figured reading the entire thread wasn't worth it. If you want to have a civil discussion over changes, you should be civil yourself.

Maybe people will take you more seriously.

Maybe you should more than skim and realize that the condescension began with them. Almost all of the offensive wording is their own, turned back upon them. Thanks for your misinformed input.