Yoshi P: Please Consider a Better Raiding System in 3.0 - Beyond Statics

[Zumi]

In most MMOs people design and recruit for their guild around the max number of players needed for end game. For example a popular mmo with 25 man raids you would have your core 25 raiders + 3-5 bench players because there will people who can't show up for whatever reason and non raiders who are there to be casual or social with the other people who do raid.

FFXIV is no different its just instead of 25 that number is 8.

[raelgun]

In most MMOs people design and recruit for their guild around the max number of players needed for end game. For example a popular mmo with 25 man raids you would have your core 25 raiders + 3-5 bench players because there will people who can't show up for whatever reason and non raiders who are there to be casual or social with the other people who do raid.

FFXIV is no different its just instead of 25 that number is 8.

Now this is false, you dont recruit specifically for bench, was replying to someone else, but its the same thing, you recruit and rotate out fairly, as its not possible to have people for 100% but you still want everyone to basically meet your criteria, this is just using worse case scenario.

[Zumi]

Now this is false, you dont recruit specifically for bench, was replying to someone else, but its the same thing, you recruit and rotate out fairly, as its not possible to have people for 100% but you still want everyone to basically meet your criteria, this is just using worse case scenario.

Several top end guilds in wow recruit for the bench. If your guild is really good enough you will have people willing to join for the bench because bench players are the ones that get a full time position when one opens up from someone quitting.

[Alipoprocks]

Raelgun is right, everyone else is wrong. Close the thread - discussion over.

[Mutemutt]

Can I just say that I like playing in a small group? It's kinda funny but smaller groups are more... intimate. It's pretty natural for big groups to break into smaller cliques actually, though I suppose that's not very important here. Still, I suppose if coil is the only thing you do with your fc/ls or whatever, this would be a pretty restrictive system.

The weekly loot lockout is pretty okay with me too. Yeah, it sucks not seeing a drop you want for month(s), but to be fair we are getting alternative gear from the tomes and the item to upgrade that is always dropping every week (assuming we get the clear), so we are still getting functional gear in the mean time.

[raelgun]

snip

The fact that they aren't doing anything about it and just whinging and wanting the system to change says it all they cant adapt to a system in this game thats been in place for over a year now.

Why cant you have in your team a number greater then 8 and rotate them out on a daily basis, whats stopping you from this, greed is whats making people just stick to 8 and not expanding on this number.

You make sure that on at least a monthly basis pretty much every one that signed up had a fair share of raiding, a good way to organise like this, and just rotate people out based on this figure, this helps take account of real life situations if someone cant make it whilst the group can still run on that day, consistent raiding is key and the experience and gear is kept in the group and not to a random pug or someone that you dont do runs with.

Also means less explaining and more efficient runs, less cancelling of raid nights also.

Other mmos do this just fine in their raid roster and have functioned like this for years.

you can click on any guild on this page and find out how they organise their raids.
http://www.wowprogress.com/

Also though I agree that I dont know other peoples stance is, the number of posts in this thread is barely a majority either and just noisy people kicking up a fuss that they cant get what they want and do not class it as representative.

And yes this system does exist in other mmos, again using wow as an example, has a weekly cap, actually had 10 man raiding (and raid sized have changed over the years), has a lot of classes with 3 specs and for most specific gears and roles and you can still gear up with out tokens just fine btw.

Yes weapons are not but still true for armour though the inconsistent nature is what bothers me more on this aspect.

Now the big question, I prefer lock outs as it keeps a hierarchy of players to be in groups of equivalently skilled players, I rather play with people on my level good or bad and progress in this nature, it makes the choice that much more important.
If lockouts didnt exist, then people who are dont raid much or not very good will ask 'help' of those in that skill set as opposed to finding those in their skill set to progress.

This leads to problems where and this does happen, the person in question that doesnt want to bother working towards raiding bugs and even guilt trips said higher end raiders, its easy to say no, but you still have said person bugging you.

It is not good for the raiding if people can go in and get everyone a clear when they are not in a position of their skill set to do the content, they should work towards doing it in their own power and more importantly, people in their skill sets.

Raids arent just for the clear, they are also designed for the journey, the experience working together with others to get that boss down which can take weeks or months for some groups, this becomes highly diluted if you can just constantly run the raids, pretty much like how all the primals have become, each kill means very little now from those, thats what will happen if end game raids like coil become unlocked like that.

Also not to mention, you then bring an unprepared player whos not ready for this level of content who hasnt practiced the tighter timings, skill set required in their roles for damage or whatever into that pool, and such this player due to being unprepared for the encounter to another group that do know what they are doing and had the many weeks or months of practising together, why is this fair.

The playerbase should do more to improve themselves, not just get a easy kill.

[raelgun]

Several top end guilds in wow recruit for the bench. If your guild is really good enough you will have people willing to join for the bench because bench players are the ones that get a full time position when one opens up from someone quitting.

A number of top ends guilds may do this, not all and most guilds under bleeding edge for world first do not function like this.

Are you really gonna assume that most guilds that are average - above average really only have benched players for this? I've never come across this and I was on hordes largest PVE server on EU at the time Draenor.

[raelgun]

Raelgun is right, everyone else is wrong. Close the thread - discussion over.

Oh since this is your attitude, will make this my last response to you, at least respond properly with points against my posts in a more civilised manner in this debate, dont like my posts thats fine, but to act childish like that, wonder who may be the problem then when it comes to the 7th group for coil then.

[Sapphic]

I enjoy how raiding is right now. I just want them to use a token system instead of random drops. It can be really annoying, especially if you're competitive, getting gear that nobody can make use of.

I prefer if they had both, say it takes 6 clears of one turn to get enough tokens. But you still have chance those 6 clears to get the drop, then you can use the tokens for something else from that bosses loot table.

But we all know, the item you want will drop the first clear after buying the item with tokens XD

[Alistaire]

If clear selling bother Yoshi-P so much, why did they not think about a logical solution like this one?

I've paid a lot of attention to all the major forums and announcements and have yet to see a post quoting him saying it bothers him, or that he's even commented on it. Link?