Thread: Yoshi P: Please Consider a Better Raiding System in 3.0 - Beyond Statics

Most MMOs have lockouts. This games issues run much deeper.

Smaller raids lead to less inclusiveness and undermine the FC/Guild system compared to other games.

Vertical progression leads to only the newest raid being useful and all other content being mostly pointless.

If you had 3 12 or 24 player raids that all dropped relevant items, you could have a lockout, a free company could do them, and people would probably be ok if they had to sit out on one of the raids to make room for someone else.

The big 3 MMO's I played (Everquest, EQ2, and WOW) all have multiple, relevant raids of varying sizes. I am baffled by the way this game does things.

But it's still the best cat girl simulator around, at least.

Originally Posted by Alysanne

Most MMOs have lockouts. This games issues run much deeper.

Smaller raids lead to less inclusiveness and undermine the FC/Guild system compared to other games.

Vertical progression leads to only the newest raid being useful and all other content being mostly pointless.

If you had 3 12 or 24 player raids that all dropped relevant items, you could have a lockout, a free company could do them, and people would probably be ok if they had to sit out on one of the raids to make room for someone else.

The big 3 MMO's I played (Everquest, EQ2, and WOW) all have multiple, relevant raids of varying sizes. I am baffled by the way this game does things.

But it's still the best cat girl simulator around, at least.

And this reminds me, the fact that we are locked to 8 people and only 8, no more, no less. It would be great to have a little bit of flexibility.

Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

Played WoW and hated it. Played Rift and Tera and Lotro and others. They all have one class per character. And don't even get me started on specs. FFXI had more specs per job than anything out there (well, maybe there are games with more specs - just making an exaggerated point). But specs=/= classes. One class per character for all those games.

I play FF for life! or until I can't take this anymore.

Yet you still don't get the point or didnt properly play wow, each class has 3 specs, which the very specs functions like each job in FF14, in 14 you can have PLD (tank), WHM (healer), ninja (melee dps), all of these require their own gear to fufill the role, paladins in WOW require the exact same concept, the main difference is you are locked to just 3 specs under 1 class for that character, the looting works the exact same way.

You do not get access as a paladin main tank to healing or melee gear over others who are healing or melee main spec, these are regarded as off job or off spec gear.

Also you can have more then 8 people, its called having a roster, most guilds in wow and rift do this, 10 man raids have like 13-15 people in the roster, this is a people problem in 14 to only have 8 and not expand and rotate people out.

raelgun -

There some very key aspects you are missing in your comparison to other games. These other games have proper token systems, larger raid caps, far less strict group make-ups and far less job specific loot requirements. You claim 'it works for other games' but even admit why you don't understand why it doesn't work for this game. Clearly is it not working and that is due to a combination of many things wrong with the current system.


The issues at hand have been clearly defined by a lot of people on this thread: lockouts promote anti-social static group play and poor loot distribution. You really have not addressed either of these problems yourself while claiming the current system works. Your major resistance to the proposed changes in this thread seem to mostly amount to being concerned that you might have to join more PUGs (which doesn't even really make sense)?

Frankly you sound like someone that has been blessed with lucky loot drops and only knowing 7 other people that play the game and have been in a solid static since ARR release. This isn't really a common scenario with a lot of people, so please understand that. There is clearly a source frustration from a lot of people and it is something that should be fixed and I think you are going to have to come up with a little better argument in this thread other than "well it works in other games" and "people might be able to get carried through raids."

What about a coin slot system? The coins are categorized by tank heal dps coins (dps can be divided again by melee and ranged). Each turn drops coins and players can need roll them based on their roles. Then they go to a designated area and put in a coin and get a drop based on the job they are on when they push in the coins as long as the coins match the jobs role. You cannot get duplicates this way. So if you have a leg piece on you, the slot machine cannot give another leg piece. The rng is now about when, not if.

The coins can be further tiered by grades. Gold silver and bronze to ensure the later turns provide the better reward pools. By fcob example, t10 and 11 only drop bronzes while 12 drops silver and bronze and 13 drops gold and silver. Gold slots are weapons. Silver are chest and legs and some pieces. Bronze are accessories and some feet and head pieces.

Some pro cons is that a static can divide their loot absolutely equally while pure pug playes will have constant competition (offset by less rng once they have coins?). The number of coins needed for the slots can be adjusted to allow repeat runs? Like, first weekly kill drops a sack of 5 coins for a roll and a slot pull is 5 coins while repeat runs with non statics give out 1 coin multiple times?

Originally Posted by raelgun

The biggest complainers are the ones not doing enough, the ones that are doing fine and is working for is a lot larger then you think but stay quiet about it.

Raid size yes, but thats all relative and can change, I prefer a large raid size but still pro lock out, this game also actually does have just as lenient make ups, but the class loot is inconsistent more then anything, blm and smn armour is shared but mnk and drg isnt yet uses the same primary stat.

The system exists in other mmos and people have got it to work in those, thats what you are not getting through, so whats the difference here, the playerbase cannot adapt or think out of the box to get with the system, I have provided a solution, get a roster above the size of 8 and rotate people out.

I am glad it is so easy for you to get a roster big enough to rotate. I am seeing people quit or take a break from this game so often it has been a very tall task to get enough people.

Originally Posted by raelgun

The biggest complainers are the ones not doing enough, the ones that are doing fine and is working for is a lot larger then you think but stay quiet about it.

Raid size yes, but thats all relative and can change, I prefer a large raid size but still pro lock out, this game also actually does have just as lenient make ups, but the class loot is inconsistent more then anything, blm and smn armour is shared but mnk and drg isnt yet uses the same primary stat.


The system exists in other mmos and people have got it to work in those, thats what you are not getting through, so whats the difference here, the playerbase cannot adapt or think out of the box to get with the system, I have provided a solution, get a roster above the size of 8 and rotate people out.

How the hell do you expect players to adapt when the system restricts you to a VERY SPECIFIC SYSTEM. You go in with your 8 man static. You get some randomly generated loot. You wait another week to do it again. What is 'thinking out of the box' going to get me? How about you provide some actual examples rather than just throwing out these generic suggestions like "players need to adapt" or "think outside the box."

And really, don't even bring in this silent majority BS. You have no idea what their stance is and I can easily claim they agree with my side rather than your side. Completely pointless.

And you are wrong, this specific system has NOT even existed in another MMO. Another MMO has never restricted players to weekly caps with just 8 people, such a high number of different jobs all without a token system. You are just taking bits and pieces from other MMOs, forming your own system in mind and claiming it has always worked.

I mean come on! Listen to yourself!

Raid size is relative? Relative to what?
The game actually has lenient makeup? Not with 8 player limitations it doesn't.
Some armor is shared, weapons are not. Convenient to forget this little aspect but oh I guess it's completely fine if a Dragoon lance drops 4 weeks in a row and you don't even have a dragoon in your static.
Why are you pro-lockout? What exactly do you gain from this system?