The Hunt Public Shaming Needs to end

[NyarukoW]

...that specific things were confirmed by a GM ....

First you have no links, and I seen those posts and they confirm nothing. This isn't the first time the hunt issues are being discussed, and all the attempts of the early pulling trolls trying to whitewash or legitimize their awful behavior is basically them trying to extract their pound flesh. They are rude, inconsiderate, and wrong. Actions have consequences and pissing off a whole server of players has some serious consequences.

[Kosmos992k]

First you have no links, and I seen those posts and they confirm nothing.

I've spent enough of my time today dancing to your tune. I posted a link to a rather long topic about resetting marks in my previous reply. I'll waste no more of my time on you.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...nt+reset+grief

[NyarukoW]

....

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...nt+reset+grief

And there was not clear decision about early pulls, nor was there decision about identifying and blacklisting the trouble maker. In short the GMs said essentially player please play nice with each other and get along, and GMs will reserve the right to make judgement and take action see:

With the weekend coming up, I won't be responding further to any questions. I hope I was able to provide some insight and clarity; I also know there's a bit of frustrating opaqueness that is a part of my responses as well.

I will be having GMs monitor the thread if it remains active. I'm sure there are discussions left to be had, so please remember to keep it civil and sometimes just accept that the best course of action is to agree to disagree. This will prevent the GMs from having to lock or remove the thread, the latter of which would remove any responses I could give for anyone else looking through the forums or as a point of reference.

LGM Enkrateia

... And because nothing is black and white, this does not mean that pulling the hunt mark will not result in a grief tactics violation. The circumstances that would cause it are rarer, but not impossible. A GM would make that determination after investigating a report on potential grief tactics.

As in several of my posts, as a player, I appreciate the players who can get people to wait a bit to give more people a chance to participate. However, unless the hunt mark is pulled in a manner that a GM finds to be intentionally disruptive, waiting is a social behaviour, not an edict within the rules.

So there was nothing confirmed and stop pretending that it was confirmed. This thread is rehashing the non-confirmation. But know this, players themselves can enforce a standard reasonable behavior that will allow the GMS to stay out the muck.

[Stihllodeing]

The truth:

That's still semantics. Not pulling is a courtesy. Nothing more, nothing less. Fast pulls are not a reportable offense. GMS will do zip, zero, nothing to with reports of early pulling because it breaks no rule. It's just 'rude'. It's like calling the cops cause some guy didn't hold the elevator for you. It doesn't matter at all that it's rude. There's nothing you can do about it. Getting on the PA and yelling "cloudxxxxsephirpth didn't hold the elevator! His mother was a hamster and his father smells of elderberries" might get YOU escorted out by security though.

You guys are trying to enforce this player construct of 'hunt etiquette' but it's not enfocable, and SE won't help you enforce it. Needs more Deal With It.

Best post in thread imo. I don't like early pullers...but I don't like a lot of things about a lot of people. I won't report someone for an early pull.

So there was nothing confirmed and stop pretending that it was confirmed.

So, saying a GM needs proof before they can do anything to you isn't "proof" enough for you? And also wtf is wrong with you?

*edit

And also Kosmos has been MORE than civil. Kudos to Kosmos.

[NyarukoW]

...
So, saying a GM needs proof before they can do anything to you isn't "proof" enough for you? ...

That is so vague. Proof to do what about what? They even stated that will stay away from hypotheticals, so it basically confirms nothing. It only confirms that the GMs will reserve to the right to make judgement call and assess the appropriate penalties. It does not prove that early puller can't be trolls and are immune to being reported for griefing and receive a penalty in response.

In any case, whether GMs act or not players can and will blacklist and do their best to keep the trolling early pullers from ruining the hunts for everyone else. This happened on my server about 6 months ago.

Early pullers in hunts are just like speed runners in the dungeon. They prioritize themselves over everyone else. It does NOT have to be us vs them. But the same impatient people always insist that everyone else is slowing them down. They are the same impatient bunch abuses vote kicks because they couldn't wait 10 seconds and locks someone else out of a boss room.

In any case, they come up with all sorts of stories and make up all sorts of hypotheticals and come here and cry about the large majority of "them" calling them names like the horde and zerg etc. Funny thing is the "them" is the community and large majority of players that works to be inclusive and allow everyone to get full credit from hunts. Telling these trolls that they are behaving badly and messing things up for everyone else is NOT something they want to hear.

These trolls do NOT want it to be inclusive. They want to be exclusive, create friction, drama. They are upset that vast majority of the player base have a catch-up option to gear up. They are working as hard as they can to disrupt the game play of everyone else, do their darndest to be detrimental to the rest of player base that are happily working together and doing the hunts.

And you know what happens when you have trolls in your FC see:
http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ve_the_server/

My friends in the LS in the .exe FC ditched their FC like rats jumping ship. No one is sad about the trolls leaving.

[Stihllodeing]

...snip....

It's not against the rules, confirmed by the GMs. Deal...with...it.

Nor is it against the rules to blacklist the early pulling trolls and drive their FC off the server. If you and your FC earns such a bad reputation, good luck to you. Deal with it.

Putting up a thread telling people to be quiet and suffer from the antics of early puller is non-starter. People have the freedom of speech and as collective people can act and do what they need to protect their LS and keep the hunts running well and keeping people civil.

Nor would anyone say anything as stupid as "blacklisting early pullers" is against the ToS Agreement. I also said (cuz you can't read) I don't like early pullers.

And about being civil...just lol. Kosmos was more than civil with you, and what did you do? Put a load of words in their mouth, claimed that they were claiming to "act as a GM" (lol), and talked down to them. They even asked you politely stop. SO, if you continue to act like an ass on the foums and people decide to blacklist you and drive you from the forum, good luck to you. Deal with it.

They did claim to be the GM with all this so call "confirmed by GMs" when no such thing happened. And they want me to stop so I have to be quiet because of what? They only want their one sided story to provide cover for the trolls to behave badly. I've not cussed at anyone or called anyone names like you've just done. They can choose to filter me out all they want. But evidence and facts of the posts will remain and speak for themselves.

You're right, the posts will speak for themselves. Kosmos never said they were a GM and never gave the indication they wanted to provide "cover" (lmao). And if you think the GMs have not confirmed early pulling is NOT a violation of the ToS, you are in denial.

[NyarukoW]

It's not against the rules, confirmed by the GMs. Deal...with...it.

Nor is it against the rules to blacklist the early pulling trolls and drive their FC off the server. If you and your FC earns such a bad reputation, good luck to you. You made your bed, you sleep in it. Deal with it.

Putting up a thread telling people to be quiet and suffer from the antics of early puller is non-starter. People have the freedom of speech and as collective people can act and do what they need to protect their LS and keep the hunts running well and keeping people civil. The one thing the early pulling trolls fear is the people working together communicating and identifying them and working to counter the early pull griefing for lulz.

-------------

... Calling out abusiveness at the player/party who pulls IS reportable, as is if the puller shouts abuse back. ...

Obviously you don't read, and numerous times I've said that verbal abuse should be reported. Identifying the early puller and blacklisting them however is not verbal abuse nor is it verbal abuse to communicate to everyone a the hunt who the early puller is.

[NyarukoW]

... claimed that they were claiming to "act as a GM" (lol), and talked down to them. ....

They did claim to be the GM with all this so call "confirmed by GMs" when no such thing happened. And they want me to stop so I have to be quiet because of what? They only want their one sided story to provide cover for the trolls to behave badly.

...SO, if you continue to act like an ass on the foums and people decide to blacklist you and drive you from the forum, good luck to you. Deal with it.

I've not cussed at anyone or called anyone names like you've just done. They can choose to filter me out all they want. But evidence and facts of the posts will remain and speak for themselves.

[Sapphic]

So there was nothing confirmed and stop pretending that it was confirmed. This thread is rehashing the non-confirmation. But know this, players themselves can enforce a standard reasonable behavior that will allow the GMS to stay out the muck.

Pulling a mark when there are enough people to kill it is NOT intentionally disruptive, it is playing the game as designed. As the GM confirmed waiting is a social behaviour not an edict. Calling out abusiveness at the player/party who pulls IS reportable, as is if the puller shouts abuse back. In fact ANYONE screaming obsceneties or abuse at anyone else irregardless of perceived actions is reportable. So, hunt pops, a party pulls and kills. You come along and start shouting and abusing the party who killed it. Guess who is the one reportable? You!