Are cracks in the Armoury System beginning to surface?

[Rydin]

So people are upset that a tank needs more than just gladiator abilities to beat the newest toughest MOB in the game...
This is a crack in the system? The fact that spending more time leveling makes your character better is a flaw?

Well then I'll take a flawed game over a perfect mess in a heartbeat...

That is no crack... people that have spent more time playing the game have more abilities than you.... gives you something to work towards really

[Amsai]

OK, how about if I state it this way. I would rather rank up GLA to Rank 300 then have to rank up other classes. I think for some people it is about time and the lack there of for class grinding. For me its just about being able to play a specific role with one class, and more importantly Class Pride!! I dont want the taint and foulness of another class in my chosen class. But I'm positive that soon I will be able to take pride in being a Paladin and not a Gladlanpugthamarchconrauder.

[Rydin]

OK, how about if I state it this way. I would rather rank up GLA to Rank 300 then have to rank up other classes. I think for some people it is about time and the lack there of for class grinding. For me its just about being able to play a specific role with one class, and more importantly Class Pride!! I dont want the taint and foulness of another class in my chosen class. But I'm positive that soon I will be able to take pride in being a Paladin and not a Gladlanpugthamarchconrauder.

Well that will be the function of jobs. Classes are more generic, very cross class friendly and borrow greatly from each other while jobs are more specialized and perform a singular role more efficiently. That just reinforces the point that the armoury system is not broken.

[kukurumei]

far as balancing it, its been done, GW has more skills, and you can really be what you want, as long as its something thats in the game. There are super builds, but they are super for a specific purpose. there main prob is there are bad builds, and some people dont like that type of freedom, that is the freedom to make a really bad build.

the problem is being a gladiator doesnt equal being a bad ass tank, and a lot of people want it to.

GW isn't even an MMO and makes no attempt at even trying to be one. Thus why it charges for content. It's much the same as diablo2 where balance only goes so far as making newer content for people to burn through and forget.

GW is essentially a SP game with online DLC. And it is still easier then FF14's armoury system that basically unbalances every aspect of battling given it's impossible flexiblity. Thus why THMs were tanks and ARCs were synonymous with "all DoW classes leveled"

Well that will be the function of jobs. Classes are more generic, very cross class friendly and borrow greatly from each other while jobs are more specialized and perform a singular role more efficiently. That just reinforces the point that the armoury system is not broken.

The developers did a fairly bad job of making armoury system anything but not broken. There is theory and there is reality. No matter what workable solution to make armoury system a balanced and long lasting class system is again too late to speculate given what it has done wrong rather then right. Hindsight is a biach.

All it did was was make one or two super class with multiple requirements to achieve first, and get out of the way.

Post 1.18 all it did was discourage people from picking skills which is essentially the next best thing to having it not selectable at all.

It all goes back to the war/whm theory. If no one even bothers to acknowledge it, does the option exist as anything more then a drunken joke? (Tree falls in forest~)

It's one big fat circle in spending more effort and resources to reach the same decision process that you choice of badastank build is an illusion.

What you really eventually will become is a gladpugconjmrd-ist with benefits and calling it a pld....when you could have simply made a pld and not have to spend time thinking up the gladpugconjmrd-ist part.

[Physic]

GW isn't even an MMO and makes no attempt at even trying to be one. Thus why it charges for content. It's much the same as diablo2 where balance only goes so far as making newer content for people to burn through and forget.

GW is essentially a SP game with online DLC. And it is still easier then FF14's armoury system that basically unbalances every aspect of battling given it's impossible flexiblity. Thus why THMs were tanks and ARCs were synonymous with "all DoW classes leveled"



The developers did a fairly bad job of making armoury system anything but not broken. There is theory and there is reality. No matter what workable solution to make armoury system a balanced and long lasting class system is again too late to speculate given what it has done wrong rather then right. Hindsight is a biach.

All it did was was make one or two super class with multiple requirements to achieve first, and get out of the way.

Post 1.18 all it did was discourage people from picking skills which is essentially the next best thing to having it not selectable at all.

It all goes back to the war/whm theory. If no one even bothers to acknowledge it, does the option exist as anything more then a drunken joke? (Tree falls in forest~)

It's one big fat circle in spending more effort and resources to reach the same decision process that you choice of badastank build is an illusion.

What you really eventually will become is a gladpugconjmrd-ist with benefits and calling it a pld....when you could have simply made a pld and not have to spend time thinking up the gladpugconjmrd-ist part.

thing is gladpugconjmrd isnt the same thing in every situation, there is different mixes for making each role, and different styles and directions to go with it. the thing is the main job doesnt define it completely, more the chosen mix of skills.

[Rydin]

GW isn't even an MMO and makes no attempt at even trying to be one. Thus why it charges for content. It's much the same as diablo2 where balance only goes so far as making newer content for people to burn through and forget.

GW is essentially a SP game with online DLC. And it is still easier then FF14's armoury system that basically unbalances every aspect of battling given it's impossible flexiblity. Thus why THMs were tanks and ARCs were synonymous with "all DoW classes leveled"



The developers did a fairly bad job of making armoury system anything but not broken. There is theory and there is reality. No matter what workable solution to make armoury system a balanced and long lasting class system is again too late to speculate given what it has done wrong rather then right. Hindsight is a biach.

All it did was was make one or two super class with multiple requirements to achieve first, and get out of the way.

Post 1.18 all it did was discourage people from picking skills which is essentially the next best thing to having it not selectable at all.

It all goes back to the war/whm theory. If no one even bothers to acknowledge it, does the option exist as anything more then a drunken joke? (Tree falls in forest~)

It's one big fat circle in spending more effort and resources to reach the same decision process that you choice of badastank build is an illusion.

What you really eventually will become is a gladpugconjmrd-ist with benefits and calling it a pld....when you could have simply made a pld and not have to spend time thinking up the gladpugconjmrd-ist part.

I've actually thought the same thing to be honest. And the only solution I can see is that PLD is going to have to be an incredible tank that far outweighs gladpugconjmrd-ist since jobs wont be able to cross class as many abilities... or else people will just end up sticking with gladpugconjmrd-ist and jobs would be a joke... I really hope that isn't the case

[Gennosuke]

I completely agree with OP.

Honestly, i've seen the shortcomings in the Armoury system since day 1 as well, and knew it would be but a matter of time before they'd reach this disaster. I had mentioned this to a friend since the beginning and he disagreed back then but now he himself is not interested in playing anymore 'cause he can see the cracks opening wide. Although it's starting to become visible now, i'd hate to picture this game in another year or more, you'll have an army of super-hybrid-abominations roaming around Eorzea. All with the same classes leveled and same abilities, executing the same moves, only difference is their class title.

I personally very much dislike the Armoury system myself and prefer the job system. In all the previous FF's, they were more or less job based systems, and they all succeeded as games, some more fun than others but they all worked. Armoury system, while interesting as an idea is quite flawed and short-sighted and only introduces problems in many ways and the complaints have already been made by people time and again and they still stand.

1) Lack of Uniqueness - People by nature like to be unique. It absolutely sucks to be the same as the rest of the players no matter what class you're on, gives no sense of identity or need for you as an individual. At the end of the day, in FFXIV, all players who want be somewhat competent, whether casual or hardcore, will need to get the same abilities more or less to make the most out of the game and you end up with duplicate supermen doing the exact same thing.

2) Lack of Party play - Armoury system is the biggest culprit here, when you have a gladpugconjmrdthm, why would you target a specific class anymore? There are no requirements due to this mash of roles. As long as someone tanks and someones cures. Party play is only rewarding when each player has a sense of need and unique contribution. Obviously SE realized that now with majority of votes complaining about this and now they are introducing Job system.

3) Lack of Balance - There are mutliple areas where balance will be hit hard, whether it's the vast difference in power or challenging game content for all players or the even more prominent issue i see coming with the new job system is the devs having to constantly address and keep up with class VS job system throughout the whole game.

As it stands now, Time is the primary and main factor in distinguishing between players rather than skillful play. This turns it into an SP game when infact it was intended with casual player in mind, being able to completely enjoy the game and not feel left out or gimped, pretty much SE's own words.
Heck, in this regard, even FFXI which was hardcore style play still felt more casual than FFXIV. Atleast in FFXI, you could level one job to 75 and be fully content with the game experience and with your competence against other players to a good extent. I had one job at 75 and i had an amazing experience and i could often outplay or outdamage other 75's even though they had better gear and merits and many other jobs at 75. This is how it's supposed to be, especially so in FFXIV. Makes no sense to have for eg. a rank 50 10 yr old with all the time on his hands outplaying a mature skillful rank 50 30 yr old purely because the kid has all classes leveled.
Hence the limits set in subjob systems as in XI. Limits are good, it keeps game in balance and within reason and it fosters more skillfull play and demand for other players.

This is ofcourse not to say that those spending extra time should not reap the rewards, i think that's fair game, but the fundamentals of the game should not be tampered with. There are many ways to reward the hardcore players. Be it merits, or elite gear and ofcourse.. even the simple fact that they can play and enjoy many more jobs at rank 50 while the casual can only enjoy 1 or so. I always wanted to play other jobs in FFXI or have more subjobs, but simply didnt have the time for it, i never complained, i thought thats fair, in the same time i could enjoy the game without feeling completely gimped. These are just a few ideas. The point is everyone can be happy and content in this game, no need to screw one group for the other's sake.

The way i see it, Yoshi and the new dev team realize this but are stuck with the short-sighted vision and mess that the old team put them in and it will be a rather challenging task to fix the game now. In all honesty, The Job/Subjob system worked far better and addressed all the probs of Armoury system (mentioned above). I am glad to see job system coming back, however.. i'd really like to see it completely replace the class system, otherwise we'll have an issue of redundancy. I just really cant see the 2 systems working together, they're contradicting and the abilities will be quite redundant, we already have all the cures, taunts, provokes, hp leech, regen, nukes, list goes on.. of abilities in our current classes. How redundant will the new jobs be with their new abilities?
Just make it simple, FFXIV doesn't need more complication, especially now when the new dev team trying to fix the mess they're in and make the game playable and bring the masses back. Replace the classes with the new jobs so no one's efforts are gone and i would love to see subjobs brought back into the game.
Some sacrifice needs to be made in order for game to progress forward and prosper.

I pray for Yoshi and dev team's success. This may well be a make or break for the game.

[Malakhim]

You'd think that all the people here who cry about the devs making the game "easy mode" by adding things like hate meters and no XP loss on death would appreciate the strategy involved in creating different class builds to meet the various situations they may encounter on their adventures...

[lenn1]

I've read OP thoroughly.

Personal answer to OP's subject heading: Nope.

Predicted answer from Square Enix: The Armoury System is working as intended. We would love to see more feedback regarding this issue. Thank you.

This is exactly how the Armoury appeases hardcore and casual players and represents the absolute beauty of it. It is how it has been advertised since day -365. Casual players can still play along hardcore players. Hardcore players have the advantage of having all of the actions they have rightfully earned with the time they've spent in game to utilize in a way that they see fit creating almost countless possible combinations.

Break the Armoury = Kill any semblance of beauty and originality this game may have had.

Its not weather someone deserves to be godly for putting more time than others, its the fact that if more challenging content comes out and more mandatory specs start coming out even more people will be getting left out. We just saw what happens if you were not a GLA, CON, or ARC. Now imagine if people start thinking in order for you to be good you need to have abilities from other rank 50 classes or else you wont get an invite to anything.

[Firon]

Armoury System

Classes

Actions will undergo major revisions, along with both the underlying mechanics and conditions.

By major revisions, not only do we mean the tweaking of effects and potency of existing actions - we will work from the ground up to redesign and reassign actions based on clearly identified class roles.

We will also make a number of changes as part of our reexamination of how actions are equipped and the character requirements for doing so. First, actions learned by each class will be set to the action bar by default when playing as that class. Also, we will be making some actions settable on any class, while other "class-defining" actions obtained at higher ranks will be usable only by that class.

Why is this still being debated this statement above was posted by Matsu himself and i posted this much earlier in the thread... More changes are coming to classes, so let this topic fall back so more important topics can get seen here.