The Ninja Superthread

[Aiurily]

they're very consistent for the fps range. if you're consistently over 60 fps during recording, recording at 60 fps would be more exact; my frame estimates should be within -1 or +1 of the number stated for my personal mudra speed.

if anyone wants to try and see how their own mudra speed/ninjutsu gcd clipping compares

record @ 30 fps (or 60).
put huton up, try to get 2.00 skillspeed (since it's just an easier number to work with when it comes to allotting gcd to frames. not required; just divide your huton gcd by 60 for gcd per frame for 30fps)

do gcd>any ninjutsu>gcd; as soon as your first gcd goes off cooldown, play the video frame by frame (ctrl and -> arrow on MPC HC) until your gcd gets used again (skill icon goes entirely black) the amount of frames from your gcd going off cd to your gcd getting used is how much your ninjutsus clip into your gcd in frames; 1 frame=0.033s.

latency via resource monitor is like 90ms or so. pinging my server (behemoth) i get 55ms~

[Arkenne]

It must be nice to be able to play with so little latency and swing Raitons inbetween GCD with only 0.93 clipping like that even at 2.00 GCD :|
*envies, envies a lot*

Just out of curiosity, can you try fitting a Shuriken inbetween GCD and see if it comes out before GCD refreshes? (aka, no clipping at all) So then I can envy you even more :U

[Aiurily]

under huton, gcd>mudra>ninjutsu (shuriken)>gcd will not clip the gcd at all. didn't for me at least.

it's actually 0.467s gcd clipping for my raitons, i did some bad math before i edited the post lol

[Ephier]

Posted this in Eliroos thread on reddit

Also went ahead and got some numbers for you,
Fuma: http://puu.sh/dxBfd/54aad59b4d.png Raiton: http://puu.sh/dxBiX/7cfc1c9756.png
In the parses you can see the damage variance on fuma is 626~673 non crit (not counting crits because I do not have enough), while Raiton is 702~746
So for the high end I lose 120 dmg per mudra (746 - 626), while on the low end you lose 29 damage (702 - 673), so the damage variance (for the small sample size I did anyways) is 29~120 dmg lost per mudra.
If you average the numbers in the parse out you get 718.4 for raiton, we shall round up for worst case scenario, 719, and 651.8 for fuma, we shall round down for again for worst case scenario.
719 - 651 = 68.
On average you can expect to lose 68 damage per mudra based on the numbers I presented.
Using the numbers you showed in your original post 10 fuma (3160) vs 10 raiton (3600), you would lose a total of 440 potency over that course of time. If we use the average we are losing a total of 680 damage (1200 if we use the highend number). Using spinning egde (again assuming the worse case scenario, the 2 gcds that you gain from using fuma will be spinning edge), which averages 390 for me, the 2 GCDs you would gain (4.6 seconds) will be made up for damage wise, but not potency wise. 390 (2 spinning egdes) x 2 (2 gcds gained from using fuma) = 780 but, 440 - 300 = 140, so while you may lose 140 potency, the damage can either be made up for a gain of 100 damage or a loss of 420 damage.

This is all assuming the worst case scenario, if you end up on anything other than spinning edge you are most likely looking at a DPS gain over raiton.

[Arkenne]

I know its meaningless and pointless to just post for this but


OTL!!!

I want that latency...
Seriously, this Mudra system feels like bloodline-skills from birth for our characters <- Given that it practically depends on where you play from.

Shuriken VS Raiton

Well, it confuses me a bit there, even at the speeds in Aiurily's video, Raiton bites on the GCDs by about half a second, while Shuriken, as the person herself (based on char) assures, executes and ends before the GCD refreshes.

Given this, it would mean that Raiton is undoubtly stronger than Shuriken, but its pushing the GCD by about half a second per execution, while Shuriken almost plays like a normal oGCD.

So then in theory, based on those numbers Raiton compensates the timeloss by striking harder and Shuriken by not clipping on GCD?
In other words, if Shuriken is used instead of Raiton unless Kassatsu, the same DPS-output is to be expected?

Certainly numbers are weird...

[Aiurily]

should keep in mind these numbers for gcd clipping are on the generous side for me personally. my mudras are slower in pve instances and open world; estate is generally always very responsive for mudra speed, and a bit unrealistic because everything else isn't as smooth in comparison lol. realistically in a raid, you're gonna clip your gcd even more.

I know its meaningless and pointless to just post for this but


OTL!!!

I want that latency...
Seriously, this Mudra system feels like bloodline-skills from birth for our characters <- Given that it practically depends on where you play from.

asian mmo games have to have a certain ping-carried factor! it's just how it is~

[Arkenne]

Yes, by the end of the day is a tests played against a striking dummy and hence a lot lighter to the overall system... still, lag on the Mudras is terrible :/

[Ephier]

Well, it confuses me a bit there, even at the speeds in Aiurily's video, Raiton bites on the GCDs by about half a second, while Shuriken, as the person herself (based on char) assures, executes and ends before the GCD refreshes.

Given this, it would mean that Raiton is undoubtly stronger than Shuriken, but its pushing the GCD by about half a second per execution, while Shuriken almost plays like a normal oGCD.

So then in theory, based on those numbers Raiton compensates the timeloss by striking harder and Shuriken by not clipping on GCD?
In other words, if Shuriken is used instead of Raiton unless Kassatsu, the same DPS-output is to be expected?

Certainly numbers are weird...

The whole point of what I posted was to show, that the dmg you would lose from using Fuma over Raiton would be made up from lack of GCD clipping. All the numbers I posted were assuming the worst possible outcome, and results could actually come out MUCH better.

should keep in mind these numbers for gcd clipping are on the generous side for me personally. my mudras are slower in pve instances and open world; estate is generally always very responsive for mudra speed, and a bit unrealistic because everything else isn't as smooth in comparison lol. realistically in a raid, you're gonna clip your gcd even more.

^

[Kuroyasha]

should keep in mind these numbers for gcd clipping are on the generous side for me personally. my mudras are slower in pve instances and open world; estate is generally always very responsive for mudra speed, and a bit unrealistic because everything else isn't as smooth in comparison lol. realistically in a raid, you're gonna clip your gcd even more.

asian mmo games have to have a certain ping-carried factor! it's just how it is~

Every time I mudra in final coil I be like

[Velhart]

I pretty much have to depend on programs just to lower my latency issues with mudra. Everything else I do on any job is fine and my latency without it in general is great, but its sad to see I have to result to using them just to get mudra to function as it should in Coils. Its given me great results however. SE does need to either find a way to make mudra lag more bearable or change how you cast it to make latency of the ability less relevant. It is one thing if you lack experience to pull it off fast enough, but its a pretty terrible concept when latency itself is the major determining factor if you can play Ninja well or not. In short, I pay an extra 9.99 a month to play Ninja.