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  1. #91
    Player
    Atomnium's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    331
    Character
    Flare Oskopnir
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Xisin View Post
    The two jobs should not do equal dps, BLM needs to be higher dps in order to stay viable when compared to summoner.
    *huge sigh*

    I Can't believe this thread turned into an huge BLM vs SMN war, this is kind of pathetic to see arguments coming from a main blm so the smns doesn't get any sort of buffs... You should be more focusing on asking a total rework update on BLM, mainly because of this :

    Is kind of sad when you are an huge Final Fantasy fan and know how far more complete and complex the FFXIV-BLM should be. BLM need a real revamp.

    Meanwhile, I'm personally well-informed that a good and lucky BLM will out-dps a good SMN and I couldn't care less to say the least xD.
    Would I welcome the return of my Thunder? Of course! but what I really need as SMN is slightly more freedom on my mps management for long fights (even more when the said fight include a crazy amount of adds x.X).
    Oh... And less Spell Speed on gears please >.>;;; Seriously SE, If you plan to continue the huge vertical gears progression, at least you should test them with every jobs ^.^;
    (2)

  2. #92
    Player
    Hyunckel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Posts
    437
    Character
    Hyunckel Xanadu
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 52
    Well that would explain my friend Summoner doing lower dps than me as Warrior (without Defiance) in a low level dungeon run (granted I'm ilv110 she's got ilv30 leveling gear)

    I hope that they're gonna fix Summoner before she's lv50 :|
    (0)
    LEAF's HUNT Linkshell Leader
    Seasonned Tracker and Main Tank DRK i180
    http://myanimelist.net/profile/Hyunckel
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  3. #93
    Player
    Meier's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Imagery Land
    Posts
    551
    Character
    Meier Michaelis
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 70
    Still no word from tbe devs about this?

    Any reply is appreciated, please fix smn devs!
    (2)

  4. #94
    Player
    Sunako's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    1,439
    Character
    Sunako Kirishiki
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    Pictomancer Lv 100
    I dont get why almost every SMN tread is war between SMN and BLM. They are both good in different situations. My opinion is that itemization is biggest SMN issue, nothing else. I think it is good if you need think carefully your mana use in the endgame content and make the job more challenging.
    (0)
    Last edited by Sunako; 12-12-2014 at 08:59 PM.

  5. #95
    Player
    Orrias's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    153
    Character
    Tinee Person
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 20
    .


    (A) Increase the potency and mana return on Energy Drain.

    (B) Increase the amount of Aetheryte stacks up from 3 to X amount.

    (C) Lower the duration on the CD for Aetherflow.
    (2)
    Last edited by Orrias; 12-12-2014 at 10:13 PM.

  6. #96
    Player
    Shizuna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    71
    Character
    Alethea Wyste
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 70
    I really hope they buff/change/adjust mana cost of spells for SMN soon. I'm not the best player or anything, but I know there is a huge dps difference between SMN and BLM cause I'm in a static with a BLM and I have the numbers to prove it.

    I don't really care about how mobile they are and how much utility a SMN has. Honestly, I don't even use it a lot in any of the fights cause I'm too busy trying to keep up with dps, dodging mechanics, and pushing phases. The only time I actually get to use eye for an eye mostly is if I used bio or ruin II, and virus is usually handled by my static SCH (unless it's needed for adds). A SMN shouldn't even prioritize using resurrection over a healer; when you do that, about a quarter of your MP is gone, and MP is precious, especially in final coil.

    And it's just saying something when like around 8-10 people I know have switched their mains from a SMN to a BLM (or something else). After looking at all the parses, it just tells me that there's really no point on playing SMN if you want better dps. You're better off having a combination of MNK, NIN/DRG, BLM, and BRD. Just about all the top-tier statics I've seen have that kind of party composition.

    Yes, I'm complaining, but that's my opinion on why I think SMN's need some sort of adjustment for long fights. I know my above points aren't that great, though I feel the same way as OP and I just don't feel like looking into or repeating what the supporters have said. Some of you (who don't play it faithfully) probably think or know what's best for SMN, and you may be right on some things but wrong on other things. I have played this class ever since patch 2.15-2.18(?) and I don't think some of you understand that this class is not the greatest in high content-standard cause of MP issue and lower dps compared to everything but brd. You can't just say that, "since SMN is more mobile than BLM, the MP cost is fine as is." The infinite MP resource that BLM's have is kinda dumb, however as a SMN, in a long fight I don't have the luxury to use ruin II every time I have to move or before I use fester. I only do that when I have raging strikes/int pot or when I know that my BRD is about to use ballad for my healer and even then I don't really ask the BRD to use ballad for me. He needs that for TP song for himself and physical attackers in my party.

    Not to mention ruin is not the best filler attack, seeing how most of your damage comes from pet, dots, and fester. Based on the parse data, ruin and ruin II combined are around 10%-12% of my damage or about 20k damage total in a 10 minute fight. I'm all for a small potency buff for ruin and ruin II I think. Not to big, maybe 10-15 more. DoT potency can stay as is, but definitely take less mana to cast. I hate having to re-DoT an add that's not in bane range or when I don't have aetherflow stacks up. You spend 398 MP putting your DoTs up on a new target. These little changes can go a long way until SMN get a rework in the expansion.

    I still enjoy playing it, but I feel like it's not really rewarding to play as a SMN and like I said before, it seems like they are outclassed. Another thing to add about that that I forgot to mention is it's not fair how BLM has better single and multi-target dps than a SMN. It just doesn't make sense to me. When I speed run a dungeon as a dps, I go as BLM, regardless of having a i130 SMN book (bleh). It's all about that infinite resource and reliable AoE damage.

    But whatever.. I'm dealing with it, since SMN is my best class. :/

    tl;dr - SMN's are not in the best spot and could use the suggested adjustment that they deserve.

    Edit: I just had another idea and I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it. I was looking at SMN skills and trait, and when I read the "Maim and Mend" trait, I realized they should add or do something different for it. Right now, it gives you base action damage and HP restoration increase. It should also have increase MP regen under a certain percentage, like 15%. Or maybe make that a new trait.

    Or have Aetherflow skill restore higher percentage of MP or changed it and make it based on missing MP. I'm just throwing new things out here. What do you guys think?
    (4)
    Last edited by Shizuna; 12-12-2014 at 11:30 PM.

  7. #97
    Player
    Judge_Xero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    2,228
    Character
    Divine Gate
    World
    Exodus
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    Could probably bring SMN base MP up to 3600 to match BLM.
    That would allow for 2160/min MP recovery.
    360 MP/min over what we have currently.

    Edited for Reasoning behind post:

    SMN average MP consumption/min
    - 2600 MP (includes Miasma II, Ruin II where applicable)
    - 3000 (Short Burst Damage + AA)

    Example 3600 MP Base
    2600-2160 MP - less 440MP/min - 8mins 12 seconds full damage no breaks (no R2 spam for full AA damage)
    3000 - 2160 MP - less 840MP/min - 4.5min full burst damage no breaks (R2 Spam for full AA Damage)

    ------------------------------------------
    Example 3000 MP Base
    - 2600 MP - 1800 - less 800 - 3 mins 45s
    - 3000 MP - 1800 - less 1200 - 2 mins 30s

    ------------------------------------------

    Put that into context of say Turn 12 where you are reaching the add phase in around 4 mins pushing 4 bennus at which point WHM needs Ballad anyways.


    600 MP would require ~80 Melded Piety - outside of i110 Crafted gear it's not exactly viable due to the damage loss of primary stats for higher iLvl gear.

    -----------------------------------------

    Possible issues

    SCH too much MP if Piety is tied to ACN class
    If the Soul Stone gives SMN X# of Piety, how will that scale with MP cost of spells for level increase
    (1)
    Last edited by Judge_Xero; 12-13-2014 at 03:36 AM.

  8. #98
    Player
    Minorinz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    409
    Character
    Yuni Azure
    World
    Spriggan
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Xisin View Post
    oh man, the name calling comes out.

    K.

    1. the mp cost is there because of the mobility, if you've read the whole thread you'd see I'm for you getting mp cost reduction buffs but not potency buffs
    2. Fester can be used on the move just as much as energy drain. Moving or not you'd be using energy drain or fester depending on your mp bar
    3. duh.
    4. if your pet dies then you messed up... badly. This does not belong in a balancing discussion, being a good summoner means never letting your pet die. a dead pet should never happen.
    5. this is entirely on your own management. Plan accordingly and you can get your two spells that actually matter if they get interrupted by just fine. bio 1 should never be off sync
    6. i agree it is nice for shadowflare, shadowflare cost a ton of mp too so this is a decision in itself. The res thing works one way or another either argue it matters or argue it doesnt matter, summoners are going back and forth on this.
    7. shift +4 = call pet to you shift + 5 place pet. you can move it around easily with these two commands while your casting. If you ever need to sustain in a fight you messed up. placing your pet doesn't mean its permanently rooted to the ground. Keep your pet on obey and not sic. (why are you using sic?)
    Alright lemme help you there.

    You said it, MP cost is there because of mobility, and the current demand is including MP cost reduction or MP better generation, without it there is no such thing right as complete mobility or the best 2nd class to jump around and move, simply incorrect. If you read my post you'd see me saying that we don't need potency buffs just mana bonuses and utility buffs, and tbh if they won't even adjust mana might as well buff potency to make summoner worth while with the mana issues we have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minorinz View Post
    SMN is not that far behind and I don't think it needs potency buffs, simply better mana refreshing rate and better usage of utility.
    Second of all, fester and energy drain are off GCD doesn't even relate to mobility, I don't even.........they don't matter much if you don't have your dots up because of constant moving.
    Third, try watching a summoner's pet on shiva!!!!11@! it will get vulnerability stacks no matter where you put it and eventually die unless you regularly use sustain or keep moving it on the group EVEN then it might survive. Also on T11 last phase where Kaliya becomes only DPS-able in melee range and you will have to place pet near the boss or in it to not have it cleaved or killed. O I forgot to mention moving the goddamn pet is a dps loss as well, especially garuda.
    Fourth, Having dots up is ofc my own management but that's not what your argument was about right? MOBILITY MOBILITY!!! SMN MOBILITY!! oh ok? well ofc if you want such thing you have to sacrifice dps here and there with dots being clipped too early or too late, BLM or SMN mobility is affecting both whether on a smaller or larger scale.
    Having sustain up doesn't mean I messed up if so then please go teach SE how to make better GCDs for pets since using sustain means I messed up lol
    That logic though.


    And yes priority to res is always up to healers however if their swiftcast is down and if they were the ones dead. Can I take the honors of res'ing them while throwing my mana away cause also lets be clear about this, having a dps/healer back on their feet is worth the mana i'm losing but that's the point, I shouldn't be given such horrible choice if there wasn't mana issues.
    (1)

  9. 12-13-2014 12:08 AM

  10. #99
    Player Akiza's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    1,377
    Character
    Rhel Eryut
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Summoner Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Atomnium View Post
    *huge sigh*

    I Can't believe this thread turned into an huge BLM vs SMN war, this is kind of pathetic to see arguments coming from a main blm so the smns doesn't get any sort of buffs... You should be more focusing on asking a total rework update on BLM, mainly because of this :

    Is kind of sad when you are an huge Final Fantasy fan and know how far more complete and complex the FFXIV-BLM should be. BLM need a real revamp.
    A total rework of Black Mage would make the Summoner obsolete. SE would have to take the poisoning line of spells from the Summoner and give them back to the Black Mage. Then they would have to give the Summoner another skill line to have a complete Black Mage.
    (0)

  11. #100
    Player
    Thistledown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    340
    Character
    Mighty Miggles
    World
    Tonberry
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Orrias View Post
    .


    (A) Increase the potency and mana return on Energy Drain.

    (B) Increase the amount of Aetheryte stacks up from 3 to X amount.

    (C) Lower the duration on the CD for Aetherflow.
    [A] is quite viable and scaling it with damage will benefit SMN without affecting SCH much.
    (0)

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