We have finally come full circle, SMN's need help!

[Meier]

Still no word from tbe devs about this?

Any reply is appreciated, please fix smn devs!

[Sunako]

I dont get why almost every SMN tread is war between SMN and BLM. They are both good in different situations. My opinion is that itemization is biggest SMN issue, nothing else. I think it is good if you need think carefully your mana use in the endgame content and make the job more challenging.

[Shizuna]

I really hope they buff/change/adjust mana cost of spells for SMN soon. I'm not the best player or anything, but I know there is a huge dps difference between SMN and BLM cause I'm in a static with a BLM and I have the numbers to prove it.

I don't really care about how mobile they are and how much utility a SMN has. Honestly, I don't even use it a lot in any of the fights cause I'm too busy trying to keep up with dps, dodging mechanics, and pushing phases. The only time I actually get to use eye for an eye mostly is if I used bio or ruin II, and virus is usually handled by my static SCH (unless it's needed for adds). A SMN shouldn't even prioritize using resurrection over a healer; when you do that, about a quarter of your MP is gone, and MP is precious, especially in final coil.

And it's just saying something when like around 8-10 people I know have switched their mains from a SMN to a BLM (or something else). After looking at all the parses, it just tells me that there's really no point on playing SMN if you want better dps. You're better off having a combination of MNK, NIN/DRG, BLM, and BRD. Just about all the top-tier statics I've seen have that kind of party composition.

Yes, I'm complaining, but that's my opinion on why I think SMN's need some sort of adjustment for long fights. I know my above points aren't that great, though I feel the same way as OP and I just don't feel like looking into or repeating what the supporters have said. Some of you (who don't play it faithfully) probably think or know what's best for SMN, and you may be right on some things but wrong on other things. I have played this class ever since patch 2.15-2.18(?) and I don't think some of you understand that this class is not the greatest in high content-standard cause of MP issue and lower dps compared to everything but brd. You can't just say that, "since SMN is more mobile than BLM, the MP cost is fine as is." The infinite MP resource that BLM's have is kinda dumb, however as a SMN, in a long fight I don't have the luxury to use ruin II every time I have to move or before I use fester. I only do that when I have raging strikes/int pot or when I know that my BRD is about to use ballad for my healer and even then I don't really ask the BRD to use ballad for me. He needs that for TP song for himself and physical attackers in my party.

Not to mention ruin is not the best filler attack, seeing how most of your damage comes from pet, dots, and fester. Based on the parse data, ruin and ruin II combined are around 10%-12% of my damage or about 20k damage total in a 10 minute fight. I'm all for a small potency buff for ruin and ruin II I think. Not to big, maybe 10-15 more. DoT potency can stay as is, but definitely take less mana to cast. I hate having to re-DoT an add that's not in bane range or when I don't have aetherflow stacks up. You spend 398 MP putting your DoTs up on a new target. These little changes can go a long way until SMN get a rework in the expansion.

I still enjoy playing it, but I feel like it's not really rewarding to play as a SMN and like I said before, it seems like they are outclassed. Another thing to add about that that I forgot to mention is it's not fair how BLM has better single and multi-target dps than a SMN. It just doesn't make sense to me. When I speed run a dungeon as a dps, I go as BLM, regardless of having a i130 SMN book (bleh). It's all about that infinite resource and reliable AoE damage.

But whatever.. I'm dealing with it, since SMN is my best class. :/

tl;dr - SMN's are not in the best spot and could use the suggested adjustment that they deserve.

Edit: I just had another idea and I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it. I was looking at SMN skills and trait, and when I read the "Maim and Mend" trait, I realized they should add or do something different for it. Right now, it gives you base action damage and HP restoration increase. It should also have increase MP regen under a certain percentage, like 15%. Or maybe make that a new trait.

Or have Aetherflow skill restore higher percentage of MP or changed it and make it based on missing MP. I'm just throwing new things out here. What do you guys think?

[Orrias]

.

(A) Increase the potency and mana return on Energy Drain.

(B) Increase the amount of Aetheryte stacks up from 3 to X amount.

(C) Lower the duration on the CD for Aetherflow.

[Thistledown]

.

(A) Increase the potency and mana return on Energy Drain.

(B) Increase the amount of Aetheryte stacks up from 3 to X amount.

(C) Lower the duration on the CD for Aetherflow.

[A] is quite viable and scaling it with damage will benefit SMN without affecting SCH much.

[Sleigh]

[A] is quite viable and scaling it with damage will benefit SMN without affecting SCH much.

SCH's Energy Drain is actually stronger due to Cleric Stance.

While it'd be ideal to just buff SMN's MP issues, in all honesty a SCH's MP pools while DPSing are limitless anyway so a buff wouldn't change much of anything in reality, as dumb as it is.

[Orrias]

SCH's Energy Drain is actually stronger due to Cleric Stance.

While it'd be ideal to just buff SMN's MP issues, in all honesty a SCH's MP pools while DPSing are limitless anyway so a buff wouldn't change much of anything in reality, as dumb as it is.

That's why I mentioned 3 possibilities, as each one helps with certain problems:-


(A) Increase the potency and mana return on Energy Drain. - Could help, to an extent, to alleviate mp issues

(B) Increase the amount of Aetheryte stacks up from 3 to X amount. - after 5 minutes, you'll be at a point where you're waiting on the full CD duration for Aetherflow to be available, as you'll have blown them all on Festers as soon as they became available. As you are most likely aware, Fester is needed to 'spike' a SMN's dps to maintain numbers above 450. When Fester isn't on-hand to give a much needed 'spike', your dps drops.

(C) Lower the duration on the CD for Aetherflow. - Again, it's the same principle as for (B) -- more potential Festers over the course of any given fight leads to more 'spikes,' which in-turn yields higher dps.



These changes are MINIMALISTIC and require little effort from the Dev Team, and are they are most certainly not outside of the realms of their capabilities (e.g. BLM single target buff to Fire, Fire III (?)).



I don't know if the Dev Team do internal testing, as there is no PTR (public test realm), but as stated when the BLM "buffs" came into effect, they stated that they'd monitor the situation, so if the tweaks (stated above) were overkill/ underwhelming, then they could alter the variables (i.e. potency/ mana return/ Cool down durations/ Aetherflow stacks) to a point that they deemed acceptable, and was agreeable with the player-base. However, as I'm sure the Dev Team are well aware, tweaking variables on abilites can have adverse ramifications on later content, which is probably why they are reluctant to deal with things, especially as SMN as a rather technical Job. And if you disagree with me on the adverse possibilities of tweaking abilities in MMO's, then just look at the frequency at which Blizzard has to 'hotfix' theirs, for WoW -- it's a slippery slope, but it's the one which could gain the most traction (by the player-base and Dev Team alike) for it's feasibility and effort required.

[Sequora]

[U]These changes are MINIMALISTICHowever, as I'm sure the Dev Team are well aware, tweaking variables on abilites can have adverse ramifications on later content, which is probably why they are reluctant to deal with things, especially as SMN as a rather technical Job. And if you disagree with me on the adverse possibilities of tweaking abilities in MMO's, then just look at the frequency at which Blizzard has to 'hotfix' theirs, for WoW -- it's a slippery slope, but it's the one which could gain the most traction (by the player-base and Dev Team alike) for it's feasibility and effort required.

This doesn't really explain gear itemization this patch. There's no practical reason for the amount of spellspeed gear in 2.4. I understand that there are only so many combinations for gear but having spellspeed on our top tier weapon 2 patches in a row when every other DPS class has some variation of their two best stats just isn't right.

[Orrias]

[A] is quite viable and scaling it with damage will benefit SMN without affecting SCH much.

I was thinking more a long the lines of these tweaks being made to an existing, or an entirely new SMN trait, so as to remove any undesirable outcomes with SCH. Of course, the Dev Team could just introduce a new version of Energy Drain - similiar to how Stoneskin II was - for SMN exclusively.



When push-comes-to-shove, FF14, like any other MMO is going to have balancing issues because of gear itemization, class mechanics, or fight mechanics. The reality is that this tier, the itemization for SMN's sucks, whilst gearing up...

Fine, w/e. Maybe the next tier will be more forgiving, however, the biggest issue for SMN's is MP in long drawn out fights. The Dev Team has paid little-to-no credence to this issue, so lets just try to get them to tweak something already in game that requires the least amount of effort -- hence the tweaking of Energy Drain.

No SMN playing competively, trying to compete with MNK/ NIN dps in FCoB is going to want to use Energy Drain over Fester, because it's a noticable dps loss. Tweak Energy Drain for SMN's only, in regards to it's potency and mana returns, and the problem may lighten somewhat more.

[Judge_Xero]

Could probably bring SMN base MP up to 3600 to match BLM.
That would allow for 2160/min MP recovery.
360 MP/min over what we have currently.

Edited for Reasoning behind post:

SMN average MP consumption/min
- 2600 MP (includes Miasma II, Ruin II where applicable)
- 3000 (Short Burst Damage + AA)

Example 3600 MP Base
2600-2160 MP - less 440MP/min - 8mins 12 seconds full damage no breaks (no R2 spam for full AA damage)
3000 - 2160 MP - less 840MP/min - 4.5min full burst damage no breaks (R2 Spam for full AA Damage)

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Example 3000 MP Base
- 2600 MP - 1800 - less 800 - 3 mins 45s
- 3000 MP - 1800 - less 1200 - 2 mins 30s

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Put that into context of say Turn 12 where you are reaching the add phase in around 4 mins pushing 4 bennus at which point WHM needs Ballad anyways.


600 MP would require ~80 Melded Piety - outside of i110 Crafted gear it's not exactly viable due to the damage loss of primary stats for higher iLvl gear.

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Possible issues

SCH too much MP if Piety is tied to ACN class
If the Soul Stone gives SMN X# of Piety, how will that scale with MP cost of spells for level increase